Super Powered Listening with Terri Lonowski - Ep 9

0:08 The inspiration of a spoken word tech and connection spoken Spoken. It's great to be here today with you, and my name is Rob Greenley, and thank you for joining listening or watching today. The Spoken Life program that I've been doing off and on for a few years is really focused on exploring the experience and the layers around how humans communicate with each other and how they are taking that to a digital realm with podcasting and online media, and how we need to take it back to a more fundamental orientation around human story and think of people that are listening to you and what they may be thinking, and how you think of yourself and maybe spend a little more time listening. Is what the focus of this show today is. And if you wanted to find this program, you can go to a door network. You can get access to all the past episodes and then some of the other programs that I do also. But today I have a very special guest. You can see her off to the corner here, but I'm going to bring her to the stage here in a minute. We're going to be talking to, like I said, a very special guest that's going to talk about the hidden powers of listening.

1:18 And this is a very important aspect of being an online creator or just as a human in the world today. Terry Alowanowski is the founder of Soulful Listening, so she's with me today and is a heart centered communications visionary who really inspires people worldwide through her speaking and her guesting on podcasts, and she did a ten X talk as well, So I wanted to play that for you. That'll kind of set the stage for where our conversation will let me and or two today. So let me play that now. For you who listens to you? How do you feel when you're not heard, like when someone fixates on their phone, not you. How does that make you feel lonely, resentful? Yet when someone listens to you with so much presence, the world fades away and it's just the two of you, deeply connected. How do you feel then uplifted? Being heard in this way is powerful because we are hardwired to thrive when we feel seen and heard and supported by others period. I longed for this in my own life.

2:32 Terry. You mentioned in your bio that you were inspired by your grandmother, and I'm curious to hear your story about that and what you learn from listening to her. Oh Thank you, Rob. It's such a pleasure to be here. And whenever I'm asked about my Grandma Halga, it makes me light up. She's such a gift to me. And I grew up in a small country town in Auburn, Nebraska, popular about three thousand and I grew up on the second floor of a stately mansion. And when I say second floor, the reason for that is my family had converted the first floor into a bustling restaurant with banging and clanging and late night barcrofts beneath my bedroom every night and again, from three years old on, that was my life.

3:22 And when I wanted more. Than anything, without even being able to name, it was seen and heard. And I had a quieter temperament, and I could not receive that kind of connection and listening from my immediate family. They were really, I don't know, all incumplassed with running the business, and they turned to alcohol for their solace. But fortunately there was one person that I could turn to, and that was my Grandma Helga. And in her presence we were in a safe, warm, delicious bubble. And she was a woman ahead of her time. She was successful in business, resilded twice widowed read creative, and when you were with her, you felt the presence of purpose, You felt the presence of being seen and heard in a deep way. And our relationship was important throughout my lifetime, and especially after a high school conversation with my guidance counselor one of those times where you go in and you discover what's next, and what he said to me was, Terry, you're a small town girl.

4:31 You get lost in a big city. Your best bet was to go to secretarial school and work for your family restaurant. That was a death sentence for my spirit. So after a couple of sleepless nights, I turned to Grandma Halga, shared the story with her. She presenced herself, and then she spoke possibility into me when she said, Terry, look at all I've done without education. Think of what you can do with it. And in that moment, the trajectory of my life I've shifted forever. And I went on to earn a master's degree and accomplish a lot of things, including guiding human centered design teams to showcase workforce innovations at the White House twice. And all of this was possible because of one person, and this really important conversation, a soulful conversation. And although I Grandma Helga did not provide financial support, her emotional support made it possible for me to go on and live a life of possibilities. And when I was working with the Human centered design teams and had mentioned going to the White House, I realized how important empathy was. And at the core of human centered design is empathy, and that's what is used to flip programs on their ear and provide services to customers on a heightened level. Yet I realized there were major missing pieces beyond empathy and how we learned

6:04 to communicate. And so I saw how important this was and how there was such a breakdown in communication. And at that time, I'd reviewed some research and it indicated over half of the American population was lonely half and the health implications of loneliness is equivalent to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day with health risk exceeding those of obesity. And so this broke my heart. I wept, and so I turned inward and I questioned, what is it, what is it that makes me different? What is it that I have been blessed with along the way and out of that emerged what is now known as soulful listening, which has five simple elements that, when woven together and repeated, embed integrity and confidence within relationships and help us to connect on a deeper level.

6:57 Talking is so much, seems so much connected to having a basis of listening, but most really automatically start to think more about the talking part. Right, They're always thinking about what they're going to say next, right, or and they don't really listen to what the other person is actually saying and comprehending it. And it's a challenge for online media creators, it's a challenge for really anyone just in daily life because a lot of people just and it's probably safe to say that most people they're very kind of self focused, very much wanting to express themselves, and the listening part sometimes takes a little bit of a back seat. So what's your comment to people about how they need to reprioritize and make that change. What do they have to do internally to really make that change.

7:52 Oh, that's such a rich question, and I think maybe helping listeners to understand kind of the framework of social listening would be a good starting point. And so the five elements include The first element is self care, and rarely do we hear the direct connection between high quality self care and high quality communication being made. But it is the cornerstone and it's more than a bubble bath. Although for some people who can include that. It also includes how are we talking to ourself? What is that loop that's going on inside? What kind of nutrition are we putting into our bodies? Are wemoving our bodies? Are we getting some activity going on? And also it includes healthy boundaries, sitting healthy boundaries. We need to do that to really connect with ourselves and to connect with others.

8:48 And then a higher degree of emotional intelligence. How are we self regulating how we respond to a situation or someone in front of us. So self care, when we take care of ourselves. When we meet our fundamental needs, and when we take good care of those things that I just mentioned, we really are set up for the second element of soulful listening, which is becoming fully present. Imagine we've all been in situations where we can almost see that bubble above a person's head with a list of things they're thinking about. We feel it. We're focused now as a culture in society and multitasking at all times with their mobile phones or their devices or just distractions, and people have a hard time really I think focusing now, and I think focusing is should we be thinking about this concept of focus on one thing, focus on one thing at a time, focus on what's in front of you versus what's on a screen that you're flipping through. So what's your thoughts on all that?

9:50 To become present, we bring a quality, yeah of grace into our inner actions. When we are fully present and people can feel it, you would think that, oh, everybody can do that. We notice that when somebody. Really is tuning in when they're listening to us, when they are present, when they have pushed aside the distractions for that moment. It's not to say that we can always be singularly focused. I don't know if we could do that all the time, But when we're in the middle of a high stakes conversation, it serves everybody in that conversation to really be present because when we hold that space for another person to express themselves when we're really listening, what it does is it allows the space for a person to tap into their higher reasoning. Yeah, that's where the richness of solutions can be can be unveiled.

10:47 Yeah, it does seem like a certain amount of what we're talking about here is a little bit of a focus more on self interest, and I think our society has shifted a little bit more towards a selfish type of orientation in our lives, and that may come from just the issue that we all have now around a feeling of lack in our lives. I don't know what's the way or is this not really something that can entirely be fixed, but people can make incremental adjustments to and I think it really gets back to some of those issues you were talking about, lifestyle health and getting probably enough for us, getting some nutrition because some of these behavioral patterns that we are seeing are definitely linked up with overstimulation and the constant need for a dopamine fix by going to this new app on your phone or always be I think all of us have this challenge in our lives and focus is definitely linked up with that.

11:48 Yeah, and I'm a big proponent you had mentioned incremental I'm a big proponent of start now, Start small, going that in a book that I'm writing, Start Now, Start Small. What may apply right here? Would be take a couple of breaths, take a couple of intentional breaths, and we can even do that right now. So we're gonna take three breaths. We're going to exhale all the way first, and then we're going to inhale to the count of four and exhale to the count of six. There's a reason that we do that. I don't need to go into the psychological principles behind that, but we're going to do it. So let's go ahead and exhale all the way. Inhale to the count of four one, two, three four, hold exhale one two, three, four five six again in two three four, hold out two three, four, five six in the final time in and exhale.

13:00 Yeah. Yes, Notice how your body feels now. It feels a little less, kind of tense less. Being able to focus is helpful, and I think doing that helps you focus a little bit more and get a little more calmer. And calmness may be the key here. If people are always wound up or focused on that next thing, it's almost like a nervous energy of sort that can I think cause people to not listen. I think, of course, and then when we're in that kind of a state. We're in fight flight, and our aton nervous system is just almost haywire. But when we take these rests, we can recalibrate a little bit and get more in our bodies and have access to more that we are all about. And so when we take care of ourselves through self care, when we become fully present, it teases us up for the third element of soulful listing, which is quantum listening.

14:02 And that sounds very high tech. Arry that's it's like another form of quantum computing or something. Yeah, I'm going to break it down. So if active listening and empathy had a love child, it would be this element. So it's where we listen with every fiber of our being through all our five senses, and then we pay attention to things that maybe aren't part of the five senses. We may pick up on the tone of a person. We may just incorporate our history with that person and know, oh, when this happens, this is what this means. And so when we. Connect with a person and we listen in this quantum listening way, we often gain insights into how we might be helpful to another.

14:47 I think that makes a lot of sense. I think that there's it just gets back to slowing down and focusing. Again. I grew up and maybe you did too to some degree. Before we've had all these computing divice and all these things that were constant distractions on our attention. And I do remember a time when that was more normal, right, because there weren't all these distractions in our lives that were pulling our attention here and there and all that kind of stuff and even creating content like we are today trying to juggle a lot of things and to stay focused on being able to listen. That's something that takes a skill that you have to learn. It's being able to multitask in your mind when it's important, but yet still keep listening. And that's a hard skill for some people to actually learn.

15:38 And again I'm going to say they start down, start small. Just try it out. Have a conversation with somebody and notice how that conversation unfolds differently than maybe it would have been the past. And enter the conversation with a sense of openness and curiosity and maybe with a couple of high quality questions in your back pocket, as opposed to playing out both sides of the conversation before you even get to that moment. In the past that may have sounded like, oh, he'll say this, I'll say that it's going to end like this, which is so limiting. What if we can take a step back, yeah, and just hold that space for the conversation to unfold.

16:19 I've oftentimes had this experience where I've been with like maybe a retired person, an older person or over the years and they have just wanted to talk my ear off, right, just tell me everything about their lives and tell me all these stories. And I know that there's a lot of people out there, especially after the pandemic year, that are hungry for connection to others. And I do think as you get older in life, you kind of lose some of those connections that you had, maybe more so when you were younger. And it's probably safe to say that a large proportion of the population is I think you mentioned this earlier in our conversation, are just lonely and need to talk. But there's got to be somebody there to listen too. That's the hard part about this.

17:07 That's true, and there is such power in listening because within in a conversation in which you do feel heard. There's a bonding that happens, like in the workplace, where we have this kind of a deeper connected conversation, and we lean into the fourth element, which is inspired action. Once we find out from these quantum listening, we find out how. We might be helpful another. And then we step into the fourth element, which is inspired action, and all of us have access to resources, connections. We can make a call on somebody's behalf, we can share some information that we may have greater insight into.

17:47 When we do that, when we offer assistance, inspired action, no strings attached. It really embeds, as I had mentioned before, integrity within our conversations. So the next time you get together with that person, whether it be in a romantic relationship and a work relationship parent child relationship, the next time you get together, the walls are brought down a little bit further. The creative genius is more access accessible, and so as the cycle repeats itself, you can see we're upwardly spirals into deeper and deeper connections. Yeah. Yeah, I like the concept of inspired action because that is a purposeful, intentional thing that you have to I guess, understand and internalize into your values, and I think that is a that is something that probably should come natural to people, but I'm not sure it does, and I'm not quite sure how to change people's perceptions around that.

18:48 I guess only each of us can just do it ourselves and set an example. There's power in setting examples, and there's power in somebody experiencing this. You don't need somebody else's permission to conduct an exchange in a soulful listening way. You can just do it. And then the experience of that is inspiring in and of itself. And then I want to mened the fifth element of soulful listening, and that is the feedback loop, and that is letting a person know that you have it taken this inspired action. The reason this is so critical. You can have a conversation with somebody, you can listen to them, they fillay themselves and you have it all before you and then crickets and so a person that you've had this conversation with may have gone on and taken some inspired action. But if they don't let you know, we'll fill in the blanks and say they didn't care.

19:44 I'm never going to talk to them again. That was so hurtful because I really became vulnerable, but simply circling back and say, hey, don't know how this is going to turn out that this is what I did. Yeah, My own experience with some of these type of situations is that if a person talks too much, right, if they are sharing their views or sharing their opinions for too long to people, the people that are put in the position of really in some ways feeling somewhat of a guilt relationship to be there to some degree to continue listening because maybe they don't pause and give anybody else a chance to say anything. Those kind of things happen too and it does cause I think some people that are put in a position, if they don't have this philosophy, to almost want to escape from the conversation if it goes on too long. They have to listen too long, and a person doesn't give a break for an equal exchange of communication.

20:47 I am so glad that you have set the stage for that part of our conversation. And it circles back to the first element of soulial listening, which is self care, and that is being healthy boundaries. And so when we look at when we're being drained within the context of a relationship, and it goes on and on. We really need to take stock of that and in a mindful way do a little self care. Yeah, well, that's a good kind of segue to go a little bit deeper on this concept of the health implications of this too. I think we've touched on it a little bit in that earlier part. But what's the spectrum of that. Is there nutritional issues here around people that it just causes their mental state to not be as focused, or to be a little more agitated or to things. Is there I don't know if you want to talk about this in all, it's probably a fairly controversial topics. Is there anything that you include into that can help people maybe adjust? Is it too much sugar in their diet if you're diabetic or something like that, you tend to have these urgency problems that you can't really relax and you can't really be folcused enough to listen.

22:03 I am not an expert in nutrition, but I would say that just lean into common sense and there are a number of resources that are available for that. But what I do know that I can state with confidence is that signess research indicated and I'll say it one more time because it's powerful. Half of the population is reports being lonely, and the health implications are equivalent to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day with risk now exceeding those of obesity. That is just shocking. So you do have to wonder that there is some connection here to this overriding issue that we have in our society of metabolic disease. But maybe this is linked up with all that. I know that there's people that have said that the metabolic disease crisis in this country, diabetes and all this stuff have a contribution to people's mental state and there how they react to things in their lives. There's a chemical kind of situation that can happen in the brain as part of that disease. It's not just about other health implications that can come from having that kind of thing. I just wonder, and I'm not expecting you to be able to answer this, because that's not really your expertise area and that's not really mine either, But I do wonder connecting these dots around the health implications of being able to live a more I guess, like you say, a soulful life is linked up to these areas. In our lives that we need to really take control of more.

23:28 And what I do know, and I think it played the clip of my ted x talk, is that we're designed as humans and we thrive when we feel seen and heard and supported by others. When you remove that, when we're so distracted by whatever it is we're distracted by, and that removes us connecting with other human beings, it really impedes us from being our best self. That I do know to be true. Yeah, Yeah, And I think that the world we live in right now is overwhelming to most of us because there's just so much noise in the background. Right there's so much noise and online media, and I think we aren't getting ourselves into as many in person, real life kind of exchanges with people. We are more separated now and we live kind of digital nomad lives some degree.

24:20 And I do wonder if it's a crisis of connection and people just aren't learning those skills that maybe were something that were important to earlier series of generations that were much better at doing this. Yeah, I'll touch on that for just a second. Yeah, when we look at where communication skills were once learned, it would be at the evening dinner table where we sit down and we hear about what happened in each other's day, and we bring those kind of conversations to the table. I would just challenge everybody the next time you go out for dinner, look around and see how many people are speaking with the person at their table, and how many people are looking at their phones and so when. And I'm a big proponent of the technology that's available. I think it is enhancing to so many aspects of life. I also know that human connection and learning to communicate in this deeper way is a game change.

25:16 That's what I do know. Yeah, I would agree. I think that you know, and it's such a cultural shift compared to where we are now. And I think it is a little bit of going back to more traditional values to some degree, if you want to say that, or more family values people that are, if you're sitting around the kitchen table or your dining room table as a family, that is. I don't think that's happening as much now as it used to, so people may not be learning those interpersonal skills quite as much. I believe that is true, that it's just not part of a lot of people's everyday life and with schedules of coming and going and this ball game starts at this time, and this presentation demand is happening there, and so they're like crossing paths in grabbing something to eat and running. And so maybe the communication isn't learned organically in that way. But I would invite people to again start now, start small, incorporate maybe a way to have some productive exchanges, because you'll be setting your children up for a better experience in life, as you will in your own life. And you can have a gratitude practice.

26:19 Maybe a gratitude bowl was sitting on the table. One of the people that was in a workshop I tended ended up doing that have a gratitude cards and they would put them in the bowl. And that was on the kitchen counter. And she had a couple of teenage boys and they had a handful of other teenage boys that came into the kitchen often and they go, what is this? And so what they found is that by having this gratitude practice, it gave the entire group something to talk about that was a positive nature and it was connected. And that's just one I could go on and on, but anyway, that's just one way to float connection into very busy, harried lives.

26:59 Yeah, talk about what do you think is the best approach in the context of this whole discussion that we've had about this priority that a like an online media creator, let's say a podcaster or a video show creator. How do you think that they should take what you're saying and translate that into their ability to maybe connect with people in a digital medium like this. Is there anything you can think of on that. Yes, I have a very real life example. I was with a podcast host that's very successful, and he was a little late coming to our session, and then when I was talking about take a breath and slow things down a little bit, he stopped right in the middle of our taping. It was still rolling, and he goes, Oh, Terry, I'm not doing a good job of that. I'm just packing one on top of the other on top of the other. And so he committed and then implement it in that moment to put in to a factor in I could have his assistant factor in a ten minute break in between each.

27:57 Of his appointments. Oh, and so he took that into he took that to heart and took action on it right then and there. And so what I would say is, sometimes when we think we are we're getting more done by over obligating ourselves. I would just invite you to ask yourself, is that true? So what should you do in that situation? If you're taking ten minute breaks between things that you're doing in your life, what should you be doing recalibrating your thoughts, Maybe start thinking about the other person that you're going to be meeting with and not so much about what your agenda is, and have some context about them. Is there, what's the element that you think is different? It could play out in many different ways. And one way it may play out is that you won't be so tight so wound up and nodded inside because you already know you're behind. And so when you know, okay, yeah I'm running five minutes over, but I still have five minutes.

28:50 Take a breath. You can do your yeah your breathing exercise did at the beginning exactly. You can take a breath and listen. And so I guess that's what I'm saying is that's part of self care too, is to not just pummel yourself into submission to do more than is humanly possible I am a big proponent of high achieving. I really I require that of myself, and I think it's good in many ways high performance, high achieving and taking care of yourself along the way, and using your mindfulness to factor in these little micropauses so that you can access higher level questioning and so that you can settle down your ononomic nervous system so that you can hear an opportunity in the midst of a conversation. So, now let's say we're on a podcast and it's unfolding. You're having this conversation when you're not thinking five questions ahead. Something may have been said by your guest that is just brilliant that you want to You now have the space to delve into that a little deeper, and you have the presence of mind and presence of presence to ask that high quality question.

30:03 Yeah, it's almost like an unexpected the crack of opportunity. Yeah, you actually drive more value to your audience. It's hard for a creator to think of every potential point of change or opportunity that can be kind of prescripted or something like that. That's where the magic of this comes in is having a listening mindset that can find those, just like you said, those those little hidden gems of opportunity. And to your listeners, just imagine how that feels to your listeners when you're able to pivot on a dime and tap into that. There's a surprise, there's a what are what they're going to do next? Or oh my gosh, that was that was a pearl of wisdom. I'm taken with me forever. I don't know how that exactly plays out, nor should I know how that it plays out, but I do know that when we hold that little extra space, that's where the zone of genius can bubble to the surface.

31:00 And I do have to think, let's say everybody in the world actually embraces what we're talking about here, what kind of world would that create? Let's play it out here. Would it be a world where no one's talking, everybody's listening, Or would it be a world of people just exchanging information based on in depth, soulful listening, and then that information exchange happens at a much deeper level. Yes, okay, I guess I answered my own question. Did let's play it for a little bit. In my imagination, it would be a world Imagine a world where there's less loneliness. Imagine a world where greater human potential is more fully expressed in all settings. Yeah, imagine a world where we feel supported enough to express our great solutions that we've been held holding hostage because we didn't feel like anybody would hear us. Yeah, that's the world I imagine.

31:55 This takes us down by dangerous slope to some degree, doesn't it. Given the world we live in right now? Or people are angry at each other, they're frustrated in the world that they live in. They don't understand what's going on, so they lash out at other people. It just feels like this concept that you're sharing is really an alien concept to a lot of increasing number of people in the world today, and we're so caught up in our judgment and our assessment of others that were maybe we're missing the forest through the trees or whatever that's saying is This is what I try and foster in my life too, is being able to have respectful conversations with people and have everyone on both sides of the conversation actually listen to what other people saying, and to have that other person actually have a similar orientation of actually listening and trying to understand instead of taking what someone says and immediately kind of weaponizing it against them or insulting them because of what they said. So this really gets back. This is why I thought this conversation was so important. Was this exchange that happens between people that is so important right now that the listening side is being lost, and if people really listen to what people say, a lot of people will disagree right with what another person says. You can have a certain amount of self control and how you respond to whatever someone says. You don't have to agree with it, but I think you have to have to listen to it, try and understand it, and try and foster them to share why they think that way. But the problem nowadays

33:26 is that a lot of people don't have a good reason that they can describe to share with others about why they feel the way they do. This is a very complex psychological question that I pose, but it's so fundamental to what you're talking about here. Yeah, So what I would say is that the change begins, in my opinion, with one soulful listening conversation at a time, And so we can do that in our own lives, whether it be our work lives or with interpersonal relationships, whether it be in leadership positions that we all hold. And when we have a leader that is able to think self regulate, where they have a higher degree of emotional intelligence, where they're able to model this higher way of connecting with other human beings, it has a ripple effect.

34:15 And when we see it play out in the work setting and we see, oh, it's safe to offer a creative solution. Oh, action is being taken. They let me know action is being tod Next time, I'm really going to push the limits and offer even greater of my gifts. And so when we can do this in each of the settings that we're in, that's where it begins. That's where it begins. It's mindful, it's intentional, it's powerful. Yeah, the topic of leaders doing this, I know you're going to be putting out a book on this topic here soon. Congratulations on that. And I think this perspective from a leadership perspective really dovetails to what I was just talking about. Where we are today on interpersonal you know kind of conversations that are happening that can go so far sideways but leaders are in a much different type of dynamic situation. It's a much more kind of power based kind of a position that they have in relation to other people, maybe employees or in the market in general, and they have a lot of influence over dialogue and conversation. And they also need to listen too.

35:19 Just the very nature and structure of like a corporation tends to be very top down. What's your thoughts on that kind of opposition to organizations listening. You know what my experience is that more and more organizations are realizing that this kind of connection is necessary in the workplace and it directly affects the bottom line. A recent statistic I saw was that over only twenty three percent of people are engaged in the workplace. Twenty three percent engaged. That means the rest are not, which I think the figure was several trillion dollars is what that ass business annually. And so when you get to that pain point, that's when the fodder ground exists for a different way of being and to engage employees, they need to feel connected to either the mission or the people that they're working with.

36:15 There needs to be some kind of connection. This authoritarian do as I ask you to do that it's not working any longer. And so you had mentioned the book. So the book that I'm working on right now is what called Soul Listening for Leaders, and I'm very excited about that. We're now looking for agents and publishers. So anyway, more. To come on that one. But as you had mentioned, leaders are in a very unique and powerful position to affect change that is sustaining. Yeah, I would agree. I don't know that there's any more powerful of a place in our society right now short of government leaders or political leaders are also in that position too, and I think there's a lack of listening going on there too, But it's just and that's a very fundamental to our culture and our society of being able to have political leaders value this concept of listening as well and not just driving an agenda. Right, So, Terry, let's talk about how someone can learn more about what you're doing and maybe get more insights other than what they've seen in this podcast too. I know you have a website. I'll pull it up to here.

37:23 Oh wonderful. Yes, the website is a good place to look LinkedIn. I love to connect with people on LinkedIn. And so it just be my name and just do the search on LinkedIn. That's where I'm posting most of like when I'm appearing places or if I have a new video, and so that's another really great place to go. Looking at the rest of my TEDx talk. I invite people to visit that and like it comments. That's always fun, and do keep an eye out for the soulful listening for leaders. We're hopeful that will be out within I don't know, eighteen months or so. So anyway, those thank you for that. And I'm on podcast a lot and articles and that sort of thing. But really I would like to leave your listeners with one comment, and that would be again to start now, start small, before your next conversation that matters to you, take a couple of deep breaths and listen.

38:21 Yeah, I think that's I think that's good advice for your health too, not just for listening. And if we can lower our anxiety and lower our stress our lives, that can go a long ways to helping our health too. How beautifully said. Beautifully said, there's definitely some other benefits that come from that that way of thinking. I try and take in deep breaths as much as I can. I think. The only problem with that is that some people interpret that is kind of exasperation or something like that. It's cool. Maybe don't do it with so much expression, Just do it. It could be it could be done in absolute silence, without detection from anybody. No big announcement needs to be made.

39:04 That's right. That's right to many times. If that's somebody say, is something wrong? No, actually, everything is right, that's what I. Guess, so right. Thank you Terry for being here with me. It was great to talk with you and learn more about your mission and how this might be able to help content creators and just normal people out there that aren't content creators that are trying to survive in the world today. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much, Rot. It's been a delight and a pleasure. All right, Thank you and have a wonderful day you and everyone. Okay, bye,