April 22, 2025

Super Powered Listening with Terri Lonowski - Ep 9

Super Powered Listening with Terri Lonowski - Ep 9

Join host Rob Greenlee as he shares a screen with Terri Lonowski, founder of Soulful Listening, in this insightful 10th episode of the Spoken Life Show. Discover the transformative power of truly listening, and how soulful communication can deeply...

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Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon

Join host Rob Greenlee as he shares a screen with Terri Lonowski, founder of Soulful Listening, in this insightful 10th episode of the Spoken Life Show. Discover the transformative power of truly listening, and how soulful communication can deeply impact your personal relationships, professional success, and overall well-being.

Terri shares her inspiring journey, influenced profoundly by her grandmother's attentive listening, highlighting the critical role of empathy and presence in effective communication. The conversation explores the five elements of Soulful Listening, practical ways to improve your listening skills, and the surprising health benefits of reducing loneliness through authentic human connections.

Rob and Terri delve into the common barriers to effective listening in today’s digitally distracted world and discuss strategies for overcoming these challenges to create meaningful conversations, both online and in person.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction to Super Powered Listening
02:00 - Terri Lonowski's TEDx Talk: The Power of Being Heard
03:00 - Influence of Terri's Grandmother on Listening
07:00 - Empathy and Loneliness in Communication
09:00 - The First Element: Self-Care in Soulful Listening
15:00 - Quantum Listening Explained
23:00 - Setting Boundaries and Self-Care
27:00 - The Lost Art of Face-to-Face Conversation
32:00 - Practical Listening Tips for Podcasters and Creators
39:00 - Addressing Anger and Division through Listening
43:00 - The Role of Leaders in Modeling Soulful Listening
46:00 - Learn More about Soulful Listening and Connect with Terri

Terri Lonowski
https://soulfullistening.com
https://soulfullistening.com/about-terri/

RobGreenlee.com | https://YouTube.com/robgreenlee
-Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spoken-life-show-with-rob-greenlee/id650684607
-Spotify Podcasts - https://open.spotify.com/show/5OUXQ6wLZKxKIibxOQFD8t
Adore Network - https://AdoreNetwork.com

WEBVTT

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The inspiration of a spoken word tech and connection spoken Spoken.

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It's great to be here today with you, and my

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name is Rob Greenley, and thank you for joining listening

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or watching today. The Spoken Life program that I've been

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doing off and on for a few years is really

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focused on exploring the experience and the layers around how

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humans communicate with each other and how they are taking

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that to a digital realm with podcasting and online media,

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and how we need to take it back to a

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more fundamental orientation around human story and think of people

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that are listening to you and what they may be thinking,

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and how you think of yourself and maybe spend a

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little more time listening. Is what the focus of this

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show today is. And if you wanted to find this program,

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you can go to a door network. You can get

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access to all the past episodes and then some of

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the other programs that I do also. But today I

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have a very special guest. You can see her off

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to the corner here, but I'm going to bring her

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to the stage here in a minute. We're going to

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be talking to, like I said, a very special guest

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that's going to talk about the hidden powers of listening.

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And this is a very important aspect of being an

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online creator or just as a human in the world today.

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Terry Alowanowski is the founder of Soulful Listening, so she's

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with me today and is a heart centered communications visionary

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who really inspires people worldwide through her speaking and her

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guesting on podcasts, and she did a ten X talk

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as well, So I wanted to play that for you.

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That'll kind of set the stage for where our conversation

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will let me and or two today. So let me

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play that now.

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For you who listens to you?

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How do you feel when you're not heard, like when

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someone fixates on their phone, not you. How does that

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make you feel lonely, resentful? Yet when someone listens to

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you with so much presence, the world fades away and

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it's just the two of you, deeply connected. How do

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you feel then uplifted? Being heard in this way is

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powerful because we are hardwired to thrive when we feel

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seen and heard and supported by others period. I longed

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for this in my own life.

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Terry. You mentioned in your bio that you were inspired

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by your grandmother, and I'm curious to hear your story

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about that and what you learn from listening to her.

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Oh Thank you, Rob. It's such a pleasure to be here.

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And whenever I'm asked about my Grandma Halga, it makes

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me light up.

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She's such a gift to me.

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And I grew up in a small country town in Auburn, Nebraska,

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popular about three thousand and I grew up on the

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second floor of a stately mansion. And when I say

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second floor, the reason for that is my family had

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converted the first floor into a bustling restaurant with banging

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and clanging and late night barcrofts beneath my bedroom every

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night and again, from three years old on, that was

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my life.

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And when I wanted more.

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Than anything, without even being able to name, it was

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seen and heard. And I had a quieter temperament, and

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I could not receive that kind of connection and listening

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from my immediate family. They were really, I don't know,

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all incumplassed with running the business, and they turned to

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alcohol for their solace. But fortunately there was one person

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that I could turn to, and that was my Grandma Helga.

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And in her presence we were in a safe, warm,

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delicious bubble. And she was a woman ahead of her time.

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She was successful in business, resilded twice widowed read creative,

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and when you were with her, you felt the presence

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of purpose, You felt the presence of being seen and

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heard in a deep way. And our relationship was important

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throughout my lifetime, and especially after a high school conversation

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with my guidance counselor one of those times where you

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go in and you discover what's next, and what he

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said to me was, Terry, you're a small town girl.

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You get lost in a big city. Your best bet

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was to go to secretarial school and work for your

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family restaurant. That was a death sentence for my spirit.

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So after a couple of sleepless nights, I turned to

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Grandma Halga, shared the story with her. She presenced herself,

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and then she spoke possibility into me when she said, Terry,

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look at all I've done without education. Think of what

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you can do with it. And in that moment, the

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trajectory of my life I've shifted forever. And I went

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on to earn a master's degree and accomplish a lot

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of things, including guiding human centered design teams to showcase

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workforce innovations at the White House twice. And all of

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this was possible because of one person, and this really

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important conversation, a soulful conversation. And although I Grandma Helga

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did not provide financial support, her emotional support made it

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possible for me to go on and live a life

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of possibilities. And when I was working with the Human

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centered design teams and had mentioned going to the White House,

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I realized how important empathy was. And at the core

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of human centered design is empathy, and that's what is

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used to flip programs on their ear and provide services

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to customers on a heightened level. Yet I realized there

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were major missing pieces beyond empathy and how we learned

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to communicate. And so I saw how important this was

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and how there was such a breakdown in communication. And

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at that time, I'd reviewed some research and it indicated

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over half of the American population was lonely half and

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the health implications of loneliness is equivalent to smoking fifteen

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cigarettes a day with health risk exceeding those of obesity.

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And so this broke my heart. I wept, and so

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I turned inward and I questioned, what is it, what

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is it that makes me different? What is it that

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I have been blessed with along the way and out

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of that emerged what is now known as soulful listening,

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which has five simple elements that, when woven together and repeated,

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embed integrity and confidence within relationships and help us to

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connect on a deeper level.

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Talking is so much, seems so much connected to having

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a basis of listening, but most really automatically start to

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think more about the talking part. Right, They're always thinking

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about what they're going to say next, right, or and

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they don't really listen to what the other person is

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actually saying and comprehending it. And it's a challenge for

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online media creators, it's a challenge for really anyone just

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in daily life because a lot of people just and

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it's probably safe to say that most people they're very

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kind of self focused, very much wanting to express themselves,

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and the listening part sometimes takes a little bit of

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a back seat. So what's your comment to people about

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how they need to reprioritize and make that change. What

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do they have to do internally to really make that change.

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Oh, that's such a rich question, and I think maybe

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helping listeners to understand kind of the framework of social

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listening would be a good starting point. And so the

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five elements include The first element is self care, and

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rarely do we hear the direct connection between high quality

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self care and high quality communication being made. But it

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is the cornerstone and it's more than a bubble bath.

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Although for some people who can include that. It also

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includes how are we talking to ourself? What is that

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loop that's going on inside? What kind of nutrition are

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we putting into our bodies? Are wemoving our bodies? Are

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we getting some activity going on? And also it includes

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healthy boundaries, sitting healthy boundaries. We need to do that

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to really connect with ourselves and to connect with others.

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And then a higher degree of emotional intelligence. How are

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we self regulating how we respond to a situation or

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someone in front of us.

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So self care, when we take care of ourselves.

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When we meet our fundamental needs, and when we take

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good care of those things that I just mentioned, we

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really are set up for the second element of soulful listening,

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which is becoming fully present. Imagine we've all been in

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situations where we can almost see that bubble above a

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person's head with a list of things they're thinking about.

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We feel it.

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We're focused now as a culture in society and multitasking

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at all times with their mobile phones or their devices

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or just distractions, and people have a hard time really

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I think focusing now, and I think focusing is should

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we be thinking about this concept of focus on one thing,

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focus on one thing at a time, focus on what's

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in front of you versus what's on a screen that

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you're flipping through. So what's your thoughts on all that?

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To become present, we bring a quality, yeah of grace

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into our inner actions. When we are fully present and

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people can feel it, you would think that, oh, everybody

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can do that.

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We notice that when somebody.

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Really is tuning in when they're listening to us, when

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they are present, when they have pushed aside the distractions

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for that moment. It's not to say that we can

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always be singularly focused. I don't know if we could

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do that all the time, But when we're in the

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middle of a high stakes conversation, it serves everybody in

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that conversation to really be present because when we hold

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that space for another person to express themselves when we're

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really listening, what it does is it allows the space

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for a person to tap into their higher reasoning. Yeah,

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that's where the richness of solutions can be can be unveiled.

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Yeah, it does seem like a certain amount of what

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we're talking about here is a little bit of a

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focus more on self interest, and I think our society

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has shifted a little bit more towards a selfish type

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of orientation in our lives, and that may come from

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just the issue that we all have now around a

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feeling of lack in our lives. I don't know what's

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the way or is this not really something that can

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entirely be fixed, but people can make incremental adjustments to

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and I think it really gets back to some of

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those issues you were talking about, lifestyle health and getting

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probably enough for us, getting some nutrition because some of

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these behavioral patterns that we are seeing are definitely linked

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up with overstimulation and the constant need for a dopamine

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fix by going to this new app on your phone

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or always be I think all of us have this

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challenge in our lives and focus is definitely linked up

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with that.

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Yeah, and I'm a big proponent you had mentioned incremental

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I'm a big proponent of start now, Start small, going

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that in a book that I'm writing, Start Now, Start Small.

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What may apply right here? Would be take a couple

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of breaths, take a couple of intentional breaths, and we

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can even do that right now. So we're gonna take

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three breaths. We're going to exhale all the way first,

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and then we're going to inhale to the count of

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four and exhale to the count of six.

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There's a reason that we do that.

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I don't need to go into the psychological principles behind that,

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but we're going to do it. So let's go ahead

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and exhale all the way. Inhale to the count of

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four one, two, three four, hold exhale one two, three,

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four five six again in two three four, hold out

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two three, four, five six in the final time in

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and exhale.

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Yeah.

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Yes, Notice how your body feels now.

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It feels a little less, kind of tense less. Being

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able to focus is helpful, and I think doing that

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helps you focus a little bit more and get a

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little more calmer. And calmness may be the key here.

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If people are always wound up or focused on that

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next thing, it's almost like a nervous energy of sort

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that can I think cause people to not listen.

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I think, of course, and then when we're in that

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kind of a state. We're in fight flight, and our

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aton nervous system is just almost haywire. But when we

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take these rests, we can recalibrate a little bit and

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get more in our bodies and have access to more

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that we are all about. And so when we take

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care of ourselves through self care, when we become fully present,

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it teases us up for the third element of soulful listing,

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which is quantum listening.

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And that sounds very high tech. Arry that's it's like

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another form of quantum computing or something.

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Yeah, I'm going to break it down. So if active

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listening and empathy had a love child, it would be

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this element. So it's where we listen with every fiber

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of our being through all our five senses, and then

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we pay attention to things that maybe aren't part of

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the five senses.

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We may pick up on the tone of a person.

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We may just incorporate our history with that person and know, oh,

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when this happens, this is what this means.

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And so when we.

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Connect with a person and we listen in this quantum

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listening way, we often gain insights into how we might

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be helpful to another.

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I think that makes a lot of sense. I think

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that there's it just gets back to slowing down and focusing. Again.

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I grew up and maybe you did too to some degree.

247
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Before we've had all these computing divice and all these

248
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things that were constant distractions on our attention. And I

249
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do remember a time when that was more normal, right,

250
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because there weren't all these distractions in our lives that

251
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were pulling our attention here and there and all that

252
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kind of stuff and even creating content like we are

253
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today trying to juggle a lot of things and to

254
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stay focused on being able to listen. That's something that

255
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takes a skill that you have to learn. It's being

256
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able to multitask in your mind when it's important, but

257
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yet still keep listening. And that's a hard skill for

258
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some people to actually learn.

259
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And again I'm going to say they start down, start small.

260
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Just try it out.

261
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Have a conversation with somebody and notice how that conversation

262
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unfolds differently than maybe it would have been the past.

263
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And enter the conversation with a sense of openness and

264
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curiosity and maybe with a couple of high quality questions

265
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in your back pocket, as opposed to playing out both

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sides of the conversation before you even get to that moment.

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In the past that may have sounded like, oh, he'll

268
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say this, I'll say that it's going to end like this,

269
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which is so limiting. What if we can take a

270
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step back, yeah, and just hold that space for the

271
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conversation to unfold.

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I've oftentimes had this experience where I've been with like

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maybe a retired person, an older person or over the

274
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years and they have just wanted to talk my ear off, right,

275
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just tell me everything about their lives and tell me

276
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all these stories. And I know that there's a lot

277
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of people out there, especially after the pandemic year, that

278
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are hungry for connection to others. And I do think

279
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as you get older in life, you kind of lose

280
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some of those connections that you had, maybe more so

281
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when you were younger. And it's probably safe to say

282
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that a large proportion of the population is I think

283
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you mentioned this earlier in our conversation, are just lonely

284
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and need to talk. But there's got to be somebody

285
00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.680
there to listen too. That's the hard part about this.

286
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That's true, and there is such power in listening because

287
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within in a conversation in which you do feel heard.

288
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There's a bonding that happens, like in the workplace, where

289
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we have this kind of a deeper connected conversation, and

290
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we lean into the fourth element, which is inspired action.

291
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Once we find out from these quantum listening, we find

292
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out how.

293
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We might be helpful another.

294
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And then we step into the fourth element, which is

295
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:40.319
inspired action, and all of us have access to resources, connections.

296
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We can make a call on somebody's behalf, we can

297
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share some information that we may have greater insight into.

298
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When we do that, when we offer assistance, inspired action,

299
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no strings attached. It really embeds, as I had mentioned before,

300
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integrity within our conversations. So the next time you get

301
00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.039
together with that person, whether it be in a romantic

302
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:09.039
relationship and a work relationship parent child relationship, the next

303
00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:12.240
time you get together, the walls are brought down a

304
00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:17.039
little bit further. The creative genius is more access accessible,

305
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.839
and so as the cycle repeats itself, you can see

306
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:24.039
we're upwardly spirals into deeper and deeper connections.

307
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.400
Yeah.

308
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.359
Yeah, I like the concept of inspired action because that

309
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:34.000
is a purposeful, intentional thing that you have to I guess,

310
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.720
understand and internalize into your values, and I think that

311
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.279
is a that is something that probably should come natural

312
00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:44.839
to people, but I'm not sure it does, and I'm

313
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not quite sure how to change people's perceptions around that.

314
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.440
I guess only each of us can just do it

315
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.160
ourselves and set an example.

316
00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:58.480
There's power in setting examples, and there's power in somebody

317
00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:03.359
experiencing this. You don't need somebody else's permission to conduct

318
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.279
an exchange in a soulful listening way.

319
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:07.319
You can just do it.

320
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.920
And then the experience of that is inspiring in and

321
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of itself. And then I want to mened the fifth

322
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.640
element of soulful listening, and that is the feedback loop,

323
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.200
and that is letting a person know that you have

324
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.839
it taken this inspired action. The reason this is so critical.

325
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.680
You can have a conversation with somebody, you can listen

326
00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.759
to them, they fillay themselves and you have it all

327
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.799
before you and then crickets and so a person that

328
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.400
you've had this conversation with may have gone on and

329
00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:41.759
taken some inspired action. But if they don't let you know,

330
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.559
we'll fill in the blanks and say they didn't care.

331
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.319
I'm never going to talk to them again.

332
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.640
That was so hurtful because I really became vulnerable, but

333
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.119
simply circling back and say, hey, don't know how this

334
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.680
is going to turn out that this is what I did.

335
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.799
Yeah, My own experience with some of these type of

336
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:05.839
situations is that if a person talks too much, right,

337
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:10.279
if they are sharing their views or sharing their opinions

338
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:14.119
for too long to people, the people that are put

339
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:18.279
in the position of really in some ways feeling somewhat

340
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.440
of a guilt relationship to be there to some degree

341
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.400
to continue listening because maybe they don't pause and give

342
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.000
anybody else a chance to say anything. Those kind of

343
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.119
things happen too and it does cause I think some

344
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.240
people that are put in a position, if they don't

345
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.720
have this philosophy, to almost want to escape from the

346
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.759
conversation if it goes on too long. They have to

347
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.400
listen too long, and a person doesn't give a break

348
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:46.720
for an equal exchange of communication.

349
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.680
I am so glad that you have set the stage

350
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:55.200
for that part of our conversation. And it circles back

351
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:58.960
to the first element of soulial listening, which is self care,

352
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.759
and that is being healthy boundaries. And so when we

353
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.839
look at when we're being drained within the context of

354
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.440
a relationship, and it goes on and on. We really

355
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.279
need to take stock of that and in a mindful

356
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:15.000
way do a little self care.

357
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.119
Yeah, well, that's a good kind of segue to go

358
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.839
a little bit deeper on this concept of the health

359
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.079
implications of this too. I think we've touched on it

360
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.839
a little bit in that earlier part. But what's the

361
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.880
spectrum of that. Is there nutritional issues here around people

362
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.079
that it just causes their mental state to not be

363
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.680
as focused, or to be a little more agitated or

364
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:42.839
to things. Is there I don't know if you want

365
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:44.839
to talk about this in all, it's probably a fairly

366
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.880
controversial topics. Is there anything that you include into that

367
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.200
can help people maybe adjust? Is it too much sugar

368
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.039
in their diet if you're diabetic or something like that,

369
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:58.640
you tend to have these urgency problems that you can't

370
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.720
really relax and you can't really be folcused enough to listen.

371
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:05.640
I am not an expert in nutrition, but I would

372
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.680
say that just lean into common sense and there are

373
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.359
a number of resources that are available for that. But

374
00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:15.319
what I do know that I can state with confidence

375
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.880
is that signess research indicated and I'll say it one

376
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.279
more time because it's powerful. Half of the population is

377
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.559
reports being lonely, and the health implications are equivalent to

378
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:31.000
smoking fifteen cigarettes a day with risk now exceeding those

379
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:32.119
of obesity.

380
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.200
That is just shocking.

381
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.599
So you do have to wonder that there is some

382
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.279
connection here to this overriding issue that we have in

383
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.640
our society of metabolic disease. But maybe this is linked

384
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:46.640
up with all that. I know that there's people that

385
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:50.200
have said that the metabolic disease crisis in this country,

386
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:54.000
diabetes and all this stuff have a contribution to people's

387
00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:57.119
mental state and there how they react to things in

388
00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.039
their lives. There's a chemical kind of situation that can

389
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.960
happen in the brain as part of that disease. It's

390
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.160
not just about other health implications that can come from

391
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.680
having that kind of thing. I just wonder, and I'm

392
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.000
not expecting you to be able to answer this, because

393
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.359
that's not really your expertise area and that's not really

394
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.640
mine either, But I do wonder connecting these dots around

395
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.400
the health implications of being able to live a more

396
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.400
I guess, like you say, a soulful life is linked

397
00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:27.119
up to these areas. In our lives that we need

398
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:28.519
to really take control of more.

399
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.200
And what I do know, and I think it played

400
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:34.839
the clip of my ted x talk, is that we're

401
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:38.359
designed as humans and we thrive when we feel seen

402
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:41.599
and heard and supported by others. When you remove that,

403
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:46.599
when we're so distracted by whatever it is we're distracted by,

404
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.319
and that removes us connecting with other human beings, it

405
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.039
really impedes us from being our best self. That I

406
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:57.160
do know to be true.

407
00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:59.759
Yeah, Yeah, And I think that the world we live

408
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.599
in right now is overwhelming to most of us because

409
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.480
there's just so much noise in the background. Right there's

410
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.559
so much noise and online media, and I think we

411
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:13.240
aren't getting ourselves into as many in person, real life

412
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:16.720
kind of exchanges with people. We are more separated now

413
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:20.559
and we live kind of digital nomad lives some degree.

414
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:23.440
And I do wonder if it's a crisis of connection

415
00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.319
and people just aren't learning those skills that maybe were

416
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:31.160
something that were important to earlier series of generations that

417
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.599
were much better at doing this.

418
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.440
Yeah, I'll touch on that for just a second. Yeah,

419
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:39.319
when we look at where communication skills were once learned,

420
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.599
it would be at the evening dinner table where we

421
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.559
sit down and we hear about what happened in each

422
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.759
other's day, and we bring those kind of conversations to

423
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.720
the table. I would just challenge everybody the next time

424
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.440
you go out for dinner, look around and see how

425
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.680
many people are speaking with the person at their table,

426
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:00.519
and how many people are looking at their phones and

427
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.160
so when. And I'm a big proponent of the technology

428
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.240
that's available. I think it is enhancing to so many

429
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:12.000
aspects of life. I also know that human connection and

430
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:16.200
learning to communicate in this deeper way is a game change.

431
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.160
That's what I do know.

432
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.480
Yeah, I would agree. I think that you know, and

433
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.480
it's such a cultural shift compared to where we are now.

434
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:24.519
And I think it is a little bit of going

435
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.480
back to more traditional values to some degree, if you

436
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.640
want to say that, or more family values people that are,

437
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.240
if you're sitting around the kitchen table or your dining

438
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:36.119
room table as a family, that is. I don't think

439
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:38.319
that's happening as much now as it used to, so

440
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:42.240
people may not be learning those interpersonal skills quite as much.

441
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:45.799
I believe that is true, that it's just not part

442
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.559
of a lot of people's everyday life and with schedules

443
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.119
of coming and going and this ball game starts at

444
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:54.119
this time, and this presentation demand is happening there, and

445
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.480
so they're like crossing paths in grabbing something to eat

446
00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:01.920
and running. And so maybe the communication isn't learned organically

447
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:05.039
in that way. But I would invite people to again

448
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:08.880
start now, start small, incorporate maybe a way to have

449
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.880
some productive exchanges, because you'll be setting your children up

450
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:16.039
for a better experience in life, as you will in

451
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.200
your own life. And you can have a gratitude practice.

452
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:21.759
Maybe a gratitude bowl was sitting on the table. One

453
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.920
of the people that was in a workshop I tended

454
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:28.319
ended up doing that have a gratitude cards and they

455
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:29.359
would put them in the bowl.

456
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:31.200
And that was on the kitchen counter.

457
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.880
And she had a couple of teenage boys and they

458
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.839
had a handful of other teenage boys that came into

459
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.119
the kitchen often and they go, what is this? And

460
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:43.519
so what they found is that by having this gratitude practice,

461
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.920
it gave the entire group something to talk about that

462
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:51.039
was a positive nature and it was connected. And that's

463
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:53.079
just one I could go on and on, but anyway,

464
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:58.119
that's just one way to float connection into very busy,

465
00:26:58.400 --> 00:26:59.279
harried lives.

466
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.599
Yeah, talk about what do you think is the best

467
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:04.599
approach in the context of this whole discussion that we've

468
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.359
had about this priority that a like an online media creator,

469
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:12.359
let's say a podcaster or a video show creator. How

470
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:14.400
do you think that they should take what you're saying

471
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.440
and translate that into their ability to maybe connect with

472
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.559
people in a digital medium like this. Is there anything

473
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.680
you can think of on that.

474
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:25.920
Yes, I have a very real life example. I was

475
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.359
with a podcast host that's very successful, and he was

476
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:32.960
a little late coming to our session, and then when

477
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.279
I was talking about take a breath and slow things

478
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.400
down a little bit, he stopped right in the middle

479
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.279
of our taping. It was still rolling, and he goes, Oh, Terry,

480
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.599
I'm not doing a good job of that. I'm just

481
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.599
packing one on top of the other on top of

482
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.640
the other. And so he committed and then implement it

483
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:52.759
in that moment to put in to a factor in

484
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.599
I could have his assistant factor in a ten minute

485
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.240
break in between each.

486
00:27:57.160 --> 00:27:58.240
Of his appointments.

487
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.200
Oh, and so he took that into he took that

488
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:04.960
to heart and took action on it right then and there.

489
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.559
And so what I would say is, sometimes when we

490
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.480
think we are we're getting more done by over obligating ourselves.

491
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:16.119
I would just invite you to ask yourself, is that true?

492
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.200
So what should you do in that situation? If you're

493
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:21.960
taking ten minute breaks between things that you're doing in

494
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.920
your life, what should you be doing recalibrating your thoughts,

495
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.079
Maybe start thinking about the other person that you're going

496
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:29.880
to be meeting with and not so much about what

497
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.359
your agenda is, and have some context about them. Is there,

498
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.400
what's the element that you think is different?

499
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:38.440
It could play out in many different ways. And one

500
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:40.440
way it may play out is that you won't be

501
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.680
so tight so wound up and nodded inside because you

502
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.240
already know you're behind. And so when you know, okay,

503
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:49.519
yeah I'm running five minutes over, but I still have

504
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:50.319
five minutes.

505
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:51.160
Take a breath.

506
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:54.880
You can do your yeah your breathing exercise did at

507
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:56.640
the beginning exactly.

508
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.559
You can take a breath and listen.

509
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.400
And so I guess that's what I'm saying is that's

510
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.319
part of self care too, is to not just pummel

511
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:08.279
yourself into submission to do more than is humanly possible

512
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.480
I am a big proponent of high achieving. I really

513
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.759
I require that of myself, and I think it's good

514
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.400
in many ways high performance, high achieving and taking care

515
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:24.000
of yourself along the way, and using your mindfulness to

516
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:28.759
factor in these little micropauses so that you can access

517
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:33.000
higher level questioning and so that you can settle down

518
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.759
your ononomic nervous system so that you can hear an

519
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.200
opportunity in the midst of a conversation. So, now let's

520
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.319
say we're on a podcast and it's unfolding. You're having

521
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.480
this conversation when you're not thinking five questions ahead. Something

522
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.079
may have been said by your guest that is just

523
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.880
brilliant that you want to You now have the space

524
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.880
to delve into that a little deeper, and you have

525
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:01.359
the presence of mind and presence of presence to ask

526
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:03.200
that high quality question.

527
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.200
Yeah, it's almost like an unexpected the crack of opportunity. Yeah,

528
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.839
you actually drive more value to your audience. It's hard

529
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.720
for a creator to think of every potential point of

530
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:20.079
change or opportunity that can be kind of prescripted or

531
00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:23.160
something like that. That's where the magic of this comes

532
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.839
in is having a listening mindset that can find those,

533
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:31.640
just like you said, those those little hidden gems of opportunity.

534
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.559
And to your listeners, just imagine how that feels to

535
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.839
your listeners when you're able to pivot on a dime

536
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:42.039
and tap into that. There's a surprise, there's a what

537
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:44.359
are what they're going to do next? Or oh my gosh,

538
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.720
that was that was a pearl of wisdom. I'm taken

539
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.920
with me forever. I don't know how that exactly plays out,

540
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.200
nor should I know how that it plays out, but

541
00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:56.720
I do know that when we hold that little extra space,

542
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.920
that's where the zone of genius can bubble to the surface.

543
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.119
And I do have to think, let's say everybody in

544
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.000
the world actually embraces what we're talking about here, what

545
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:07.599
kind of world would that create? Let's play it out here.

546
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.799
Would it be a world where no one's talking, everybody's listening,

547
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.039
Or would it be a world of people just exchanging

548
00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:19.119
information based on in depth, soulful listening, and then that

549
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:24.160
information exchange happens at a much deeper level. Yes, okay,

550
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:25.880
I guess I answered my own question.

551
00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.799
Did let's play it for a little bit.

552
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.359
In my imagination, it would be a world Imagine a

553
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.640
world where there's less loneliness. Imagine a world where greater

554
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:41.039
human potential is more fully expressed in all settings. Yeah,

555
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:46.079
imagine a world where we feel supported enough to express

556
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.960
our great solutions that we've been held holding hostage because

557
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.920
we didn't feel like anybody would hear us. Yeah, that's

558
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:55.200
the world I imagine.

559
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:58.039
This takes us down by dangerous slope to some degree,

560
00:31:58.119 --> 00:32:00.000
doesn't it. Given the world we live in right now?

561
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:04.160
Or people are angry at each other, they're frustrated in

562
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.960
the world that they live in. They don't understand what's

563
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.480
going on, so they lash out at other people. It

564
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:12.680
just feels like this concept that you're sharing is really

565
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.839
an alien concept to a lot of increasing number of

566
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:19.119
people in the world today, and we're so caught up

567
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.640
in our judgment and our assessment of others that were

568
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:26.240
maybe we're missing the forest through the trees or whatever

569
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.359
that's saying is This is what I try and foster

570
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:32.039
in my life too, is being able to have respectful

571
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.880
conversations with people and have everyone on both sides of

572
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.200
the conversation actually listen to what other people saying, and

573
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.559
to have that other person actually have a similar orientation

574
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.920
of actually listening and trying to understand instead of taking

575
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.359
what someone says and immediately kind of weaponizing it against

576
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.279
them or insulting them because of what they said. So

577
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:55.720
this really gets back. This is why I thought this

578
00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:59.720
conversation was so important. Was this exchange that happens between

579
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:03.000
people that is so important right now that the listening

580
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:06.599
side is being lost, and if people really listen to

581
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:09.359
what people say, a lot of people will disagree right

582
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.400
with what another person says. You can have a certain

583
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.359
amount of self control and how you respond to whatever

584
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:17.480
someone says. You don't have to agree with it, but

585
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:19.920
I think you have to have to listen to it,

586
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.319
try and understand it, and try and foster them to

587
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:26.720
share why they think that way. But the problem nowadays

588
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:28.640
is that a lot of people don't have a good

589
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:32.759
reason that they can describe to share with others about

590
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:34.559
why they feel the way they do. This is a

591
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:39.440
very complex psychological question that I pose, but it's so

592
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.519
fundamental to what you're talking about here.

593
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:46.119
Yeah, So what I would say is that the change begins,

594
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:50.559
in my opinion, with one soulful listening conversation at a time,

595
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.000
And so we can do that in our own lives,

596
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.000
whether it be our work lives or with interpersonal relationships,

597
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.039
whether it be in leadership positions that we all hold.

598
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.720
And when we have a leader that is able to

599
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.960
think self regulate, where they have a higher degree of

600
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:12.039
emotional intelligence, where they're able to model this higher way

601
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.719
of connecting with other human beings, it has a ripple effect.

602
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:18.039
And when we see it play out in the work

603
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:20.760
setting and we see, oh, it's safe to offer a

604
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.880
creative solution. Oh, action is being taken. They let me

605
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.239
know action is being tod Next time, I'm really going

606
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:29.559
to push the limits and offer even greater of my gifts.

607
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:31.599
And so when we can do this in each of

608
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:35.239
the settings that we're in, that's where it begins. That's

609
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:39.159
where it begins. It's mindful, it's intentional, it's powerful.

610
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:43.360
Yeah, the topic of leaders doing this, I know you're

611
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.679
going to be putting out a book on this topic

612
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.320
here soon. Congratulations on that. And I think this perspective

613
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:53.360
from a leadership perspective really dovetails to what I was

614
00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:56.519
just talking about. Where we are today on interpersonal you

615
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.960
know kind of conversations that are happening that can go

616
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.480
so far sideways but leaders are in a much different

617
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:06.599
type of dynamic situation. It's a much more kind of

618
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:09.480
power based kind of a position that they have in

619
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.960
relation to other people, maybe employees or in the market

620
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:15.320
in general, and they have a lot of influence over

621
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:19.280
dialogue and conversation. And they also need to listen too.

622
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.719
Just the very nature and structure of like a corporation

623
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:25.639
tends to be very top down. What's your thoughts on

624
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:29.239
that kind of opposition to organizations listening.

625
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.360
You know what my experience is that more and more

626
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:37.800
organizations are realizing that this kind of connection is necessary

627
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:40.760
in the workplace and it directly affects the bottom line.

628
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:45.039
A recent statistic I saw was that over only twenty

629
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.079
three percent of people are engaged in the workplace. Twenty

630
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:52.400
three percent engaged. That means the rest are not, which

631
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:56.159
I think the figure was several trillion dollars is what

632
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.760
that ass business annually. And so when you get to

633
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:04.920
that pain point, that's when the fodder ground exists for

634
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:09.079
a different way of being and to engage employees, they

635
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:13.039
need to feel connected to either the mission or the

636
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:14.519
people that they're working with.

637
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.079
There needs to be some kind of connection.

638
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:20.960
This authoritarian do as I ask you to do that

639
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.360
it's not working any longer. And so you had mentioned

640
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.159
the book. So the book that I'm working on right

641
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:29.719
now is what called Soul Listening for Leaders, and I'm

642
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.559
very excited about that. We're now looking for agents and publishers.

643
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:35.360
So anyway, more.

644
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:36.480
To come on that one.

645
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.280
But as you had mentioned, leaders are in a very

646
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:43.519
unique and powerful position to affect change that is sustaining.

647
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.039
Yeah, I would agree. I don't know that there's any

648
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.960
more powerful of a place in our society right now

649
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.360
short of government leaders or political leaders are also in

650
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.519
that position too, and I think there's a lack of

651
00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.000
listening going on there too, But it's just and that's

652
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.079
a very fundamental to our culture and our society of

653
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:06.159
being able to have political leaders value this concept of

654
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:13.320
listening as well and not just driving an agenda. Right, So, Terry,

655
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.159
let's talk about how someone can learn more about what

656
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:19.920
you're doing and maybe get more insights other than what

657
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:21.960
they've seen in this podcast too. I know you have

658
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.760
a website. I'll pull it up to here.

659
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:24.679
Oh wonderful.

660
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:27.960
Yes, the website is a good place to look LinkedIn.

661
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.880
I love to connect with people on LinkedIn. And so

662
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:33.280
it just be my name and just do the search

663
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.239
on LinkedIn. That's where I'm posting most of like when

664
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.559
I'm appearing places or if I have a new video,

665
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:45.239
and so that's another really great place to go. Looking

666
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.719
at the rest of my TEDx talk. I invite people

667
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:52.559
to visit that and like it comments. That's always fun,

668
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:56.480
and do keep an eye out for the soulful listening

669
00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:59.679
for leaders. We're hopeful that will be out within I

670
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:02.920
don't know, eighteen months or so. So anyway, those thank

671
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.159
you for that. And I'm on podcast a lot and

672
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.320
articles and that sort of thing. But really I would

673
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.679
like to leave your listeners with one comment, and that

674
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:16.559
would be again to start now, start small, before your

675
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:19.599
next conversation that matters to you, take a couple of

676
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:21.159
deep breaths and listen.

677
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.280
Yeah, I think that's I think that's good advice for

678
00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:25.960
your health too, not just for listening. And if we

679
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.880
can lower our anxiety and lower our stress our lives,

680
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.920
that can go a long ways to helping our health too.

681
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:34.719
How beautifully said.

682
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:38.960
Beautifully said, there's definitely some other benefits that come from

683
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.320
that that way of thinking. I try and take in

684
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.360
deep breaths as much as I can. I think. The

685
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.039
only problem with that is that some people interpret that

686
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:51.880
is kind of exasperation or something like that. It's cool.

687
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.320
Maybe don't do it with so much expression, Just do it.

688
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.320
It could be it could be done in absolute silence,

689
00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:03.679
without detection from anybody. No big announcement needs to be made.

690
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:08.079
That's right. That's right to many times. If that's somebody say,

691
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:13.239
is something wrong? No, actually, everything is right, that's what I.

692
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:15.800
Guess, so right.

693
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.519
Thank you Terry for being here with me. It was

694
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.599
great to talk with you and learn more about your

695
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.000
mission and how this might be able to help content

696
00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.599
creators and just normal people out there that aren't content

697
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.159
creators that are trying to survive in the world today.

698
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:30.639
So thank you so much for being here.

699
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:32.880
Thank you so much, Rot. It's been a delight and

700
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:33.480
a pleasure.

701
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:36.039
All right, Thank you and have a wonderful day you

702
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.119
and everyone. Okay, bye,