AI, Audio, and Podcasting with Emma Chillekens - Ep 7

0:16 The inspiration of spoken word tech and connection Spoken Life Spoken Well. Welcome back to Spoken Life Show with Rob Greenley and I have a very special episode of the show today and it's in the seventh episode of this series. I'm honored to be joined by Emma Silicons, who is a senior producer former actor whose career spans the performing arts, radio journalism, and podcast production out of the US as well as down in Australia. So I'm honored to have her with me. So let's get on with the show. I'm here with Emma Silicons. It's great to be here with you. And you're on a trip from Australia.

0:57 Yes, I am working on to see your projects while I'm here and seeing a lot of people in the States. I used to live here for six and a half years, so okay, yeah, it's great to be back. So I do this show mainly to talk about creators that are doing interesting things with audio. Right this is the Spoken Live Show, so I like to cover what people's thoughts are about how important audio has been to their life experience and also to where each person sees it going and what is next for you. So I don't know if you want to start, just your perspective on why you got involved in audio or audio, Yeah, what's been your experience with it? I my introduction to audio, I think, in the first instance was as a actor. So I used to be an actor, dancer, singer back in the day. That was my first career I was. I used to be a fairy, and then I got into films and performing on stage, and that's how I grew up in the craft.

1:52 And then I think audio was always something that was part of. That environment, right, Like when you're reading lines on stage as an actor, you're really immersed in the intention behind the line and like what that line means to the audience, and framing it in the mouth in a way that lands well to the person on the other side, and thinking about projection and all of those sort of things. And then in the film space. Kind of bringing that sound back a little bit, and you've got a camera right in front of you, so you're thinking about how to quiet and that sound down a little bit. So I think that was my initial introduction to audio, was in that environment. So a little bit different to how most people might onboard towards audio. They might start in radio or television or something like that in podcasting now these days, but for me, it was very much in the dramatic space and also in dance, So audio was the rhythm of the music, like five six, seven, eight, so you're keeping rhythm and time.

2:48 And so now. When I'm involved with podcasting and radio, I'm always thinking about audio from those perspectives. I think a lot about rhythm and timing. I think a lot about delivery and intentions behind lines. And my career's kind of almost come full circle in that I've done so many different things since I was involved in that acting world. I ended up becoming a print journalist for a time and then worked in radio. So I was a host for about eight. Years and then moved to New York City ended up getting involved here. I went to NYU as my graduate school, worked at the Wall Street Journal, and got involved in tech and artificial intelligence podcast and I've been in that world ever since about twenty eighteen, and now I'm in the podcasting space. So I went from this public radio background with ABC Australia, hosting shows for eight years, news, current affairs, all of the things that most of us would know of public broadcasting, and now I'm in this space where it's career recorded audio rather than live audio, and so I work with as a producer and senior producer.

3:52 So I've taken my career, as I mentioned, full circle where I think deeply about intentions behind lines again because I coach our host on her delivery and her performance. But I'm also thinking about the intention of complete piece that we're putting together because I work as a story editor, so I'm always thinking deeply about like, where are we coming from for this piece, what experience are we trying to give our audience, what journey do we want to take them on? And I think I draw a lot from my background as an actor, dancer and singer from my past to do my job today, which is as a scene of producer of Shift, which is a new podcast that's come out in the last six months. So looking specifically at artificial intelligence and frontier tech and it's impact on our lives.

4:37 It kind of seems like the ar official intelligence aspect of what you've been doing is a little bit of a contrast to what you've actually been doing with your career, and is that the whole performance and creative element of how do you see AI? Do you think it's going to harm that or do you think that it's going to be able to add to it to get better? Big conversation, Oh, I think AI is very complicated when it comes to the creative space. Now we're seeing AI be able to generate its own music, be able to generate its own art, but I think one of the big problems in this space is that we're seeing it piggyback off the creative talent of artists and not necessarily credit those artists. So you'll notice mid journey and different types of artistic platforms, they'll pull from artists, and you'll even sometimes see the artist's signature on the work that is developed by AI, but there's no crediting that original artist for that work.

5:38 So it's just pulling, as all AI does, pulling. From big data from a data set and putting that together in a different form and format. So AI is only as smart as the data that it's fed and it's only going to do what it's creator's talent to do. So until the creators start being more transparent with these black box algorithms and start actually building in fail safes to protect artists, we won't really see equity or fairness in this space. I think there's a lot of unfairness right now, especially towards creatives in this area. But I also think that AI can create beautiful things as well, and if it's used responsibly, can do amazing things.

6:20 And there's an artist that I follow on Instagram. I can't think of their at handle at the moment, but they're an AI artist and they work with dancers and do this amazing kind of folding imagery that folds in on itself and follows the movement of a dancer. And so something of that beauty couldn't necessarily be created just to the naked eye. This is something that's like graphics and dance and art all rolled into one. And so that's an artist taking something and creating something new. So I think the creative space and AI is very complicated. I don't think AI is enough to eradicate.

7:02 The human condition of what we're doing. We were just talking off air a little bit earlier, Rob about narrow intelligence versus wide intelligence, and how AI is very good at doing one specific thing and training on that thing and getting deeper and deeper on that particular thing, but not so good at when you take those blinders off and try to have it be more generally intelligent. That's something that is still a very complicated place for AI right now and somewhere that it's not even close to general intelligence. And I've seen some flaws in it here recently. I've seen some work that I've generated with. Have you seen the five fingers or six Normally normal normal fingers have five fingers, but it has a sixth finger that's popping out, or there's a third eye on the face, and you're like, the human would never make that mistake.

7:52 Rod work that i've seen get generated that it's almost exactly the scene with multiple users, like I saw just today, I saw a post by a podcaster that posted an image that was part of his LinkedIn post okay that looked exactly like an image that I generated from chat GPT, just like maybe a month ago. Wow, So it does. I guess if the prompt is you're saying, then it should generate the same thing. But I didn't really give it that much of a prompt when I generate, I just gave it some really broad parameters. So we're now talking about. So it went out and created the same image, but it was my impression that chat GPT would never create the same image. Tie.

8:40 I've only used it in the text format, so things like it'sprucing up cover letters for jobs and those type of things. A being quite generalized in your prompt around please write a professional cover letter for the audio field with this selection criteria. Please include this job description and please include my resume items here, or please include my bio and just like iterating on that and just plugging in a lot of data. I think AI is very good at taking a lot of data and sorting that out, but what you get on the other end may not necessarily be something that's cohesive. Yeah. Yeah, because it's increasingly starting to feel like one of the needs for a detailed prompt is that you don't want to give too much license to the AI, because.

9:26 You know, you want to keep it very controlled. Because it will do what I just gave an example of, it'll create the same image. Right, So if you make a real simple prom. For the same cover letter, I'm sure there's now people reading a lot of cover letters that are very much in the same vein because they're being spat up by the same program. Right, Because the AI has to come up with a model of those very kind of outputs that are generated based on a very generic problem. I think it's good to use AI as inspiration, So use it as a kind of phone a friend fee like you might in the past have done a cover letter and send it to your friend and got them to spruce it up. Instead, you're going to chat GBT if you're using three or four or Gemini or some other AI platform, and you're now using that as your sort of inspiration and getting help, but not necessarily relying on it. I think even things like driverless cars, we thought that they would be a lot further than they are, or the promise was they'd be a lot further than they are today, and that we'd have all these fleets of driverless cars just driving people around, and we're not at that point yet. They're still, while very smart in some ways, very dumb in other ways. I mean, if a bird flies passed a vehicle, it's very quickly thinking that's a hazard and like putting on the brakes, or it's just it's very interesting, not all that reliable.

10:49 Yes, I think the big takeaway for podcasters is that it's still early days for that stuff. And well even when you hear the AI editing. Have you heard in descript and different processes that you might listen to. It cuts off parts of words, So people are relying on something and not doing the craft, which is sitting down in audition or sitting down in pro tools and actually editing top to tail. But these AI softwares are cutting off actual words like humans, if they were editing, they wouldn't cut off a word, right, You wouldn't cut off part of a word. You wouldn't cut it that tight in your editing, whereas like AI will. Yeah, it can actually do that, right, especially if there's any kind of cross talk. I've seen that. Yeah, I used the descript tool as well, and I see these things come up on a regular basis as I try different capabilities. Yeah, it's an interesting time with the podcasting space, and increasingly as you were talking about your experience with podcasting and how you approach it more from a performance perspective.

11:51 Yeah, I would say that's important performance in the past, that's definitely it still shapes how I think about things. But I would say, if I had to give you one thing that is the driving force behind what I do, it's always audience. So it's the same in a performance space. You're always performing to an audience, right. I think when we're making podcasts, or when we're making anything that is art, we're doing that for a particular audience. So I try to do the to kill a mockingbird thing and put myself in their shoes. What is it that the audience wants to listen to, what is it that they want to feel? How do I move them? How do I take them somewhere with me?

12:32 So I tend to have a very audience centric approach to how I create content. I'm always thinking about what piece of audio would be the one that would knock them over the head and be the most interesting, or what would paint a picture for them. I'm not thinking of it from a me perspective of performance, as in I am out there performing. I'm thinking of it as what can I give the audience? What gift can I give the audience out of what I'm creating. Yeah, it's an interesting contrast to my experience with the very early days of podcasting, because the example that you are giving is a creator thinks about creating content for a type of an audience or a demographic of an audience.

13:14 Versus I think the early days of podcasting, I think, but a lot of podcasts started. They would do a show that they had a passion for. They did it in a very authentic and real way. But it was about them and not about the audience. See that's the line here. It's different is that oftentimes the creator thought of themselves first, so it was what they wanted to talk about or their passions were. And what you're doing is you're self selecting your audience based on connection with those interest areas versus trying to come up with a piece of content that maybe not coming out of who you are as a person. But it's like a concept to be able to reach a certain audience.

14:00 And it's interesting. I think I've this audience centric approach has also been born out of the fact that I grew up in public radio, and so we had to get out of the way, or did that, We. Had to get out of the way. We couldn't be the star. If we're using that performance analogy in my past, we couldn't be the star that everyone was looking at. It's not about you, it's about the story and serving the story and serving the audience. So in public radio, there was no place for egos. You had to remove yourself from a story and be completely objective in the way that you were doing it, because that's the whole form and format of public radio, right, Yeah. Yeah, I think it is. And also I think we're talking about also the contrast between natural conversations or like a back and forth versus a very scripted performance. And I done both, So I think we have to draw a little bit of a distinction there that oftentimes these performative to a certain audience are usually oftentimes scripted or pay the outline. I don't know, what's your experience with the tension around that, around outlines versus more kind of conversational bit.

15:07 Yeah, I think I've done both. I think my public radio up until last year, I was on air with ABC, which is the public broadcast in Australia. So I was doing breakfast radio programs, and I think that those are much more free and much more conversational. There's a topic for a particular day, and you're talking about a particular subject, and so you're talking around that subject. So say, I don't know, for example, let me draw from an example from about ten years ago when I was on air there's a gas explosion that happens while you're on air, and you later find out it's a double murdered suicide. So you're talking about this on air as it happens. You hear the sound in town, and it's very conversational and very free because.

15:48 You're moving in that moment. You're ringing police, you're ringing emergency services, you're bringing them on live. The story is developing over time because you're learning more and more information. Then you might go out to the scene and then that becomes pre recorded content because you're now out of the scene, you're no longer live on air, and that's when you're learning that. And this gets a little bit dark. But there's body parts of children on the road, there's awful things that have happened, and you're gathering more and more data, and so that story develops as you go along, and then you learn, okay, this was not an accident, this was something that was a double murder suicide. That's more information that comes to lights that might come over days, and in talking to those different people that are a part of it, you might talk to For example, I ended up speaking to the sister of the woman whose children had died, and so those type of things, those stories, the conversational type stories, they develop over time in radio and in live whereas in pre recorder do you have all of the information there to begin with, Right, So you've gone and you sought all of your interviews, you sought all of your facts and figures. You might have ten interviews, and then you sit there and you plow through those ten interviews and you do what we call a best of, and you listen to the best of the best audio from that, and then you decide from that best of how many minutes of each of those people will be in a five part series. So you might have one hundred hours of content, and you might be passing through that, and then once you've decided the

17:18 best of the best, then you're putting it into a script format and you're going, Okay, this person says something similar to this person, so let's place those together in this audio series that we're developing. And this gets more investigative in nature, because there's a lot of fact finding, there's a lot of story seeking, and you go, okay, this narrative might mix nicely. We've got two people saying this, who's the person that's coming in and being the voice of reason. Here are we talking to someone about the legislation around AI? Can we bring them in and be the opposing voice here? Okay, so we'll bring them in this episode. And I think the difference in the story quality is both have their place, but one is developed over time and in chunks and the other one is the development space. Yeah, happening in real time is definitely your live element, and you're learning your story as it goes along, and you're bringing that audience on a journey.

18:12 The hard thing about narrative podcasting is that you have to still bring that audience along on that journey. But you already know what the whole journey is. Ro do you know what I mean? Just sharing it? You're just sharing it. So then you have to think about you asked about tension. Where do we build in that tension? How do we build in that tension? Because we already know all the information. And one thing that I see podcasting do a lot, and it absolutely frustrates the shit out of me, is like this is a table. Oh that's a table, This is a table, and oh that was a table. You hear people like saying that this is a thing. Then you hear the audio about the thing, and then they backing ounce the thing and say the thing again. I don't know if you've noticed that in podcasting, it seems to be a style that some people do, and it takes away that magic and that joy of just discovering something when you don't have to pre announce that it's a table.

19:03 We could just hear the grab about all the select depending on what. Country you're in and what you call audio, you just hear this select about the table and you go, oh, wow, that's a table, and then you hear, yeah, that was Rob talking about the table. But you don't have to say table again because we know you're talking about the table. So one thing I've noticed in podcasting, and this would be I think one of my criticisms of the craft where you do know the whole story beforehand, is there's sometimes a lot of over explaining that happens, and you lose a little bit of that joy as an audience member of discovery, of being surprised of. That element of learning discovery.

19:44 And I don't think. I don't think we need to tell all of the story. I think we can allow people the agency to make up their own minds a little bit. And I think live radio is very good at that because they have to be, because it's happening as things develop, so you're coming along on the journey, Whereas I think podcasting some people are very good at it and some shows are not so good at that. And radio tends to be shorter. Right, So you've done a short chunk of. Time, just seven minute packages, yeah, ten minutes. Yeah, versus a podcast where you just discal. Ramble or you don't ramble. The type of work that we do, we shift and in machines we trust, and the future of everything. It's These are the podcasts that I've worked on over the past five six years. They've been heavily produced, so a lot of soonification from our composers and audio engineers, so really deep thought about how do we create a mood with that music that we're placing around what we're doing. And then sometimes if it's an investigation hundreds of hours of going through hundreds of hours of audio, that ends up being one sixty minute series across five episodes, right, yeah, So it just really depends, and I think different people have different ways of inserting that tension. But for me, it's about not telling the whole story and allowing the listener to discover things for themselves, and also just using the gold as well, just taking

21:16 Rather than thinking about what is the story I want to tell, I think about what audio do I have first, and where is the gold? And I dig out all of that gold and then I try to put that in front of me and then I use that to guide the story. And archival audio as well helps bring something to life, like a moment in time or a particular thing that happened, or a news event, like using archival audio from that time, I think helps paint a picture. I'm always thinking about how am I painting a picture with words? They say a picture tells a thousand words, but I think sometimes audio can do the same thing. It's experiential, like to hear the sound of a place and you're just if you've got it. It's quite intimate if you've got it in your ear as you've just taken there, And like, how do we I don't know, how do we serve that intimate space with that people are giving us and make sure that we're giving them something that's interesting to listen to where they can learn something and take away something.

22:13 Yeah, it's interesting. The whole experiential part of it is. We want to take people somewhere, do you know what I mean, or help them learn something, or guide them along a journey where they're learning something new. Right. A lot of podcasting is it's just conversational banter back and forth. And I know a lot of terms get thrown around to refer to different types of formats of podcasts, and this whole term of quality podcasts or high quality podcasts. And long form narrative podcasts. Yeah, mostly in yes. Jess, how do you think about this concept of drawing distinction between what's a quality podcast and maybe what is equality podcast?

22:58 I think quality is in the ear of the beholder, right, Yeah, it is. It depends on to some degree. Exactly, but it depends on what you're interested in. And you might love those double hitter two people talking heads podcasts backwards and forwards. That might be your jam. So who am I to say that's not quality? It's not heavily produced. I think we can talk about a light production value and a heavy production value. What I tend to make are things with more heavy production values. When I was in live radio, that was less heavily produced, right, So that was more a talking heads and you could turn those into podcasts quite easily, top and tail and off you go. And those don't have hundreds of hours put into them, whereas something that got the soonification, something that's composed, something that works with sound designers, something that takes an investigative look at something and has say hundreds of hours of audio and might take that down to a five part series that are twenty minutes each. That's a higher it's a high quality of audio, but it's a high production value. So I don't think that I'm the one that can tell people what they should and shouldn't listen to or what isn't high quality.

24:11 I just know that there's a lot more time money, and. There's a spectrum. Yeah, time and money I would say put into those higher production value podcasts. And sadly that's where we're seeing a lot of the space drinking at the moment podcast world right now, Like just there's no money, there's no ad sale dollars. We've got two waws that are happening globally that have meant that companies are tightening their belts when it comes to ad sale dollars, and it's sad. We're seeing a lot of really good podcasts. Die and a lot of them are those ones that cost a lot more to make with higher production value.

24:53 And that's sad because that's the type of stuff that really I think engages people and stands the test of time. Well, it's not just the shelf life of a day or a week. It's something that lasts a lot longer than that. Like you can go back now and listen to our series on AI and hiring if you're looking for a job to learn about where artificial intelligence is inserted in the hiring process, and that work is still as relevant today as it was. I think it was three years ago, or it might even be four years ago that we made that series within Machines we Trust with MIT Technology Review, and we were talking about where there were issues in the process with AI and hiring and resume passes and people that were being like resumes that were being left on the cutting room law and never making it to hiring the managers because they might not be a male name, or they might not have played lacrosse. So certain resume passes and different sorting software meant that like they were never seen by the people that needed to see them, and so we're still seeing people deal with this today.

25:55 I'm an immigrant. You can hear from my voice that I am not from America. I'm Australian and I don't know about you. But when you fill out you might not have noticed the box. But when you're filling out job ads in the US, there's a will you ever now or in the future require sponsorship box. If you click yes, a lot of the time you're automatically discounted from the hiring process. Your resume never makes it to the hiring manager. So you either learn to get really good at sponsoring your own visa, which is what I've gotten really good at, so I can say no, I don't require this, or you say yes and you have to knock on the door of the hiring manager to get your resume scene because you're never going to get seen if it's up to the algorithm, because you are a problem child. You're causing extra work for hiring managers, or at least so they think. Some of these international visas like an E three are actually quite easy. And if you learn to self sponsor an O visa, you know that's something that hiring managers never even have to worry about.

26:52 But it's a complicating factor. And I find that in the AI and hiring space, these complicating factors mean that people are less likely, Like being a woman is a complicating factor. If you're a male, you're much more likely with certain software, and we prove this in our investigation to get hired than you are as a woman. Wow, So it's just according to some resume sca vrapers with some organization. So also, if you speak in a really confident voice like this, you're much more likely to get hired. Even if you do your job interview in German or in Mandarin Chinese, you're much more likely to get hired or to be seen as a good candidate by a particular AI that's looking at your voice than if you were speaking English in a softer tone and something that didn't sound as confident like Sometimes it has nothing to do with the content, which is absolutely god we found when we were doing our investigation, Like these types of software, these types of AI that are used sometimes aren't as smart as we think they are.

27:55 They're just literally looking at how confident does your voice sound? But it can't tell the difference between an artificial voice and your own voice. We actually trained an AI algorithm to have a fake voice of our host on this series, and it couldn't tell the difference, and it actually rated the AI the fake voice as more engaging than the real voice at times. I can't remember exactly what. The criteria were a little bit more, I. Can't even remember exactly what criteria we've placed around them, but the voice, yeah, in. Certain areas it performed better than the real voice of Jennifer Strong, who is my host that I work with. And we actually went through some of these higher view and clear view not clearview, higher view I think it was called. It's been a while since I've done that investigation.

28:39 But you'd have to jump in and have a look. If you type in AI plus hiring plus in machines, we trust you'd pretty quickly find the series. And it's a really interesting series and like that type of content. I know that I've told a long story to get around is just to say it's just as relevant today, even though they've come further in developing these type of technologies. Clear View AI is a completely different technology that I got confused with. That's has to do with another world of things that we can discuss another day, but Higher View is one of the ones that I was thinking of is the type of software. But there's so many different ones out there. But if you jump online and have a look at the investigation and listen to it, you'll be just as brushed up on that, if not more than I have because I haven't listened to it for a couple of years. But it's just as relevant today.

29:24 And so that type of content, like those hundreds of hours that we use to make that at the time were well invested because it has that longest shelf life, whereas like something that you and I do on the presidential election, right, if we were to talk about the race for president, if we were to talk about the race for president, I've just knocked my coffee cup in front of me. Rob, I don't know if you could probably hear about in the background. That type of content might be dead in a week or two, because it's very relevant to today. So I think, going back to that phrase that the beauty of a piece or the quality of a piece is in the era of the beholder, is such that it's really up to the person listening and what their fascinating are and what they're interested in as to I guess what tickles their fancy and what commands their attention. And I'm really not qualified to tell other people what they should and shouldn't listen to.

30:12 Yeah, I think if you look at the overall numbers of where audience consumes content, what types of content that they consume in larger quantities, I think they do tend to be programs that are higher production quality type content. And I think that may be. I think the data would speak to that. Yeah. Yeah, I think there are some evidence of that. That's not to say that there aren't successful shows that are not what we in that upper spectrum of production quality that are successful. I think that there are showings that are very conversational and not highly produced. But I do think it's putting a lot of pressure on the industry of podcasting to do more with less.

30:52 Right now, with the crunch on ads shrinking of the industry. Yeah, it's just a really challenging time right now. Yeah. So instead of having six people on your staff on a podcasting project, where we can have multiple producers, multiple hosts and stuff like that, I think projects are being created if they're being even funded. I was going to say, a lot of them killed. A lot of them have been killed. Right, or smallerutines, maybe one host, maybe a couple of producers, and that's about it. And if that keeps happening, we're going to have to go back to more of that two heads having a conversation like similar to what we're producing here today, because it doesn't take as much time and effort as an investigation like one that we're working on at the moment. It's going to be hundreds of hours. Yeah, But I.

31:34 Also think that AI will augment this as well. I know I heard a lot of people this was like a year ago, talk about how a lot of the startup investors are increasingly thinking as they think of AI, is that it may be possible in the next couple of years to have a billion dollar startup that is run by three people. Well, times are certainly a changing, and the proof will be in the pudding, right, the same as that conversation about driverless cars earlier, that we thought that there would be so much further along than they are now, but that narrow intelligence hasn't widened into general intelligence. So to wait and see whether this billion dollar company run by three people will actually exist or whether it's just something that we think might exist.

32:20 I think right now it is a projection of right people think might happen if the AI gets powerful enough. Will be very interesting. I think it's like cracking that lot of general intelligence. And that's actually what a series that we're working on right now is about. We're looking at the race for super intelligence, and we've got some Pulitza funding to work on a series about that. Yeah, it should be interesting on this amid this backdrop of generative AI and everything that we're seeing with things like chat, GPT three, Gemini and others. And yeah, we're looking at this narrow intelligence that currently exists and where we are in this race for super intelligence, talking to people like Gary Marcus and other luminaries. So it's an interesting series and we'll certainly keep you informed on what happens with that one. Then.

33:06 Yeah, I've been increasingly thinking about this whole concept that maybe in ten years or whatever, I could acquire five or ten robots that can do a bunch of work for me out there to make an income for me or something like that. Yeah, can we. Get the cryptominas onto it? You already have that happening now. Yeah, or I think you can. I think there might be an opportunity for people that go out and buy low costs, use Tesla's right now, and maybe eventually turn them into robotaxis just in a couple of years, right when you start making an income based on these robots going on and doing things in the world. One thing is for sure is that the world is a very interesting place right now, and that we haven't even conceptualized half of the things that will exist into the future. And I think we're living in a very exciting time.

33:57 Yeah. I just wonder how it's all going to impact media like an our career. It will be very interesting to see. I think it's a shrinking space and has been for a number of years. And I hope that artificial intelligence has a place, but not too much of a place in that it gets rid of people like you and I, Rob right. They probably will replace us. Actually, I'm already accepting the fact that it probably will. I guess I'm not ready for it. To the questions, how am I going to respond to that? Am I going to. I don't think that as you are part of it? Or am I going to I don't. Think an AI can do what we can do in this conversation here and have nuance and have a conversation like what we've just done. So I don't know if we can completely be replaced, but certainly functions of our job, like editing, I think might get replaced, and then we'll find that time and.

34:47 Allocate that time to something else. Wouldn't it be great if we had them the ais doing all the chop work, and we were able to invest more time into investigations. And doing actual the. Creative sound and really, I don't know, really investing it in the areas that brought good to the world. If the robots can go off and do all the dangerous work, all of the work that nobody likes to. Do, send them out as war reporters rather than journalists. Just they walk out with a microphone. Their task is to capture the audio. From somebody exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's too interesting. Send them out via a drone, you drop them in the field, or even attached the microphone to the drone. But I'm sure things like that are already happening. It's certainly technically classible.

35:28 Yeah, absolutely, yeah, But I guess we'll just have to wait to see. Yeah, that must have been great talking to you. Yeah, it's been lovely. It's been a bit of fun and trying out this new software, this new recording equipment that you've got here today as well. It's very exciting. Yeah, it's another example of the changes and technology far things have come. Yeah. Absolutely, I look forward to hearing the finished product. Okay, all right, thanks. Mm hmmm hmmmm. The inspiration spoken word, tech and connection, Spoken like boken, spoken Light, Spoken Light, Spoken Lights with Rob Greenley with Rob Greenley with Rob green Mm hmm