July 17, 2013

2005 to 2013: Radio and Podcasting

2005 to 2013: Radio and Podcasting

Tuesday, July 16th, 2013.  This episode topic is about “The Future of Radio and Podcasting from 2005 to 2013 with http://www.markramseymedia.com. In this episode we cover these more specific questions:
- How Podcasts and Radio Content will blend...

Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon

Tuesday, July 16th, 2013. This episode topic is about “The Future of Radio and Podcasting from 2005 to 2013 with Radio Expert/Consultant Mark Ramsey. In this episode we cover these more specific questions:

  • How Podcasts and Radio Content will blend together in the Car?
  • Possible changes coming to broadcast radio?
  • Does radio needs some of the current podcasts talent to succeed now and in the future?
I interviewed Mark Ramsey back in 2005 for my ITConversations Network “WebTalk with Rob Greenlee” show. Back then, we both talked about the potential of podcasting in the face of shrinking radio audiences and how major celebrities will lead to audience growth in podcasting in the early days of podcasting. Here is a link to that full interview from 2005. I replay a key 9 minutes from that interview in the current episode here. Fast forward 8 years, to 2013 and how have things changed and did we get it right back in 2005? What are the predictions for radio and podcasting going forward from 2013? Links: Full WebTalk with Rob Greenlee on ITConversations Interview from 2005 Mark Ramsey Media Hivio Radios Ripped from New Cars, Consumers say, “Not So Fast” Retraction: The Exact AM/FM Dash Story by Eric Rhoads of RadioInk Episode length: 56 min MP3 Recorded: 7-16-2013 Please feel free to give me feedback on this show to: rob at robgreenlee dotcom or twitter @robgreenlee . Leave some of your thoughts here in the comments and I will respond to them in next week episode.
WEBVTT

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This is episode seven of My Digital Life with Rob

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Greenley for July sixteenth, twenty thirteen. I'm Rob Greenley. Thank

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you for listening to the show this week. We're back

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after a two week hiatus, but I'm happy to be

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back in the seed again. Thank you for tuning in.

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The topic this week is the future of in car

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and on demand radio and how podcasting and radio content

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will blend together in the car. The other thing we'll

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discuss is possible changes coming to broadcast radio. Does radio

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need some of the current podcast talent to succeed in

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the future. We're going to cover all those topics. Yeah,

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I'm going to spend a few minutes with broadcast radio

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and media research consultant Mark Ramsey from Mark Ramseymedia dot

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com to discuss the topics of the week in this episode.

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And I can be reached at Rob at Rob Greenley

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dot com and that's r O B G R E

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E N L E E dot com or on Twitter

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at Rob Greenley same spelling, or in iTunes or in

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Windows Phones podcast area, Stitcher and SoundCloud is where you

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can get this podcast. I manage the podcast on Windows

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Phone for Microsoft. And if you have a podcast and

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you want to get it in the Windows phone catalog,

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please send it to me at the email address podcasts

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with an S at Microsoft dot com. So let's dive

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into the topic this week. I spoke with Mark Ramsey

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back in two thousand and five for my IT Conversation

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Network show that I was doing back in two thousand

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and five. The show was called web Talk with Rob Greenley,

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and I will share a link to that interview in

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the blog post so you can optually check it out.

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Or we talked about the potential of podcasting in the

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face of shrinking radio audiences and how celebrities, major celebrities

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will lead the audience growth in podcasting in the early

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days of podcasting. So it's a little glimpse back in

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time a little bit, and I'll play a little snippet

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here from the interview in two thousand and five. It

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seems like anyway.

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In the mind, well, you know, satellite radio has a

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toe hold, podcasting has a toe hold, Internet radio has

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a toe hold. All of these things have only toe holds.

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Here's the thing about radio. It's universal. Everyone has many,

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not just one. Everyone virtually everyone listens to at least

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some And even though people listen less because of internet,

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listen less because of podcasts. They still come by the

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radio store, they still listen to the radio product. So

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when you have access to three hundred and fifty millionaires,

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give or take, the question is how you use that access.

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The audiences are still lose, is the way I look

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at it. Yeah, And you keep or lose an audience

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based on the content you provide them, and the more

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distinctive and more compelling that content is. And who can

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better afford more distinctive and compelling content than an industry

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which earns boatloads of money hand over fist today with

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one hundred percent distribution. I mean, this is the this

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is the wet dream of satellite radio to have that

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kind of distribution.

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And also when you think about what the future holds here,

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that the whole broadcast area is going to maintain its

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dominance too. I mean, from all of the studies that

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I've heard about, as a broadcast radio is not going

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to diminish its influence or reach in the foreseeable future.

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People are just going to augment their radio, their broadcast

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radio listeners with podcasting.

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Well yes, except you know, for satellite radio to add

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a million subscribers. It's a huge boon for them. For

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radio to lose a million quarter hours is not that

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big a deal. Yeah, well it's you know, because radio,

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on the other hand, it's not that big a deal

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but in terms of numbers. But it turns out that

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when you've got one hundred percent distribution and virtually everyone

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listening to you, it doesn't take much for you to

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feel a pinch. You know, it's not that big a

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deal in terms of raw numbers, but it is that

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big a deal overall because everyone's expected to grow annually,

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and when you're shrinking, even at one hundred percent, you know,

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there's really only one direction to go, and that's that's

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a problem because all these other things have a toe hold.

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It is radio's audience to lose. But I don't know,

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you know, it's as content migrates to some of these

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other venues, we'll see. I mean, I just read today

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some speculation that Serious and Apple are talking not about

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licensing Serious, you know, regular channels, but potentially licensing their

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original content to iTunes. And as you you know, as

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I'm sure you've talked about, iTunes is going to be

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enabling podcasting in their next version so when you put

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those pieces together, what you have is original, serious content

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potentially available at least for subscription, if not for free

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through iTunes for podcasting. And keep in mind that among

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that original content starting January one, two thousand and six,

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is none other than Howard Stern. You have now a

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distribution platform which is potentially vast for a product which

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is unquestionably unique and compelling and in demand.

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Yeah.

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And I think also when you kind of look at

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it from the standpoint of the new cell phones or

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mobile phones that are going to be coming out over

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the next couple of years that are going to have

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you know, always on, you know, connections and be able

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to have a massive storage capacity within those phones, you

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can really see kind of a new distribution model. But

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I guess the question that keeps coming up in my

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mind if that does, in fact happen, is that will

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that distribution be dominated by talk radio type programming or

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will it be dominated by a combination of talk radio

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and music, which is what exists right now in the

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broadcast radio.

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Well, the difficulty, as you know, is that that there

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are licensing issues with music and that are so far

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unresolved that someone is to pay to podcast music, and

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it's unclear who is to pay in how much and

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to whom, So all of that needs to be squared away.

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But there is other types of music out there.

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That that well, there's indie reels. And in fact, one

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of my one of my arguments that I made on

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a different show is that, you know, I think indie

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music has the potential to be a prime driver for

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podcasting because you know, it's put out by the people

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who own it, and you know it's that that could

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be a prime driver in no way as prime as

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Howard Stern. That's the thing. So I asked you your question

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is original, unique, broad based and compelling content. Star content

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is what drives everything. You know, Nelly sells more records

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than Joe Blow undeniably, So a Joe Blow indie podcast

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would have X amount of distribution and a Nelly podcast

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would have X to the tenth power distribution. So the

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more Nelli's you create, and by the way, Nellie's are

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not going to easily be created by podcasting. They can

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profit by podcasting, but they need mass media in order

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for their fame to spread. So I think, you know,

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music or non it's easier with non music than it

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is with music because non music content can be star

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content music content, and so these licensing things are worked out,

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is going to be Indie content, and you know India

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is they call it indy for a reason.

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So what you're saying is that the celebrity is gonna

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really be who dominates podcasting.

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Well, I mean, look, I mean even though the quality

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was poor, look at the Paras Hilton podcast for House

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of Wax. I mean, I don't know what the statistics are,

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but I would venture a guest that was one of

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the most downloaded series of podcasts. Yet well you know

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why the quality was horrible of what the content was,

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but it didn't matter. A was paras Hiltan and b

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was widely promoted by whatever the studio was, Dimension or

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whatever it was. Uh So you know that the combination

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in other words, of the man, the big corporate behemoth

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man putting together the star with the medium. Well you

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know that also iTunes and serious and Howard Stern could

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be that combination.

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But somewhere in the mix here, this whole grassroots content

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creation boom that we're seeing happening is going to play

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into this somehow. It just you know, like you were

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talking about when you factor in the influence of celebrity

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on that it does put put the the distribution more

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going to towards celebrity related podcast.

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And I've always believed exactly, I've always believed that it's

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going to it's going to be drifting in that direction.

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Yeah, but it's also possible that as you look at

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the whole mass of content creation that's going to happen

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with podcasting, that the the smaller podcasts, when you aggregate

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all those together, could wind up being a significant influence

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as well. And that's part of the reason why I

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think we're seeing networks a podcasts start to form.

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Here, and well, I think also the reason you're seeing

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networks is because people are looking towards an advertising model,

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and in order to justify an advertising model, they need

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to they need a critical mass, So they need to

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form a network for that reason and that reason alone,

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because otherwise these things are all individually too small. I mean,

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I think that all the grassroots stuff is great, but

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you know, just because you can do desktop publishing on

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your laser printer doesn't mean you're going to replace the

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local newspaper. Just because you can produce a movie on

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your laptop. It doesn't mean you're going to be lunching

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with Steven Spielberg at at the Polo Lounge. In fact,

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very much the opposite is the case. You know, for

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every Blair Witch project, there are countless thousands of indie

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films which eat up money and go nowhere. So the

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ability to create this content and the ability to have

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it you know, widely heard, scene remembered, cared about, are

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two completely different things. And you know this, now, some

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stars may emerge, well.

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We've seen a little bit of that already, I think,

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but with who you know, with some you know, some

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of the podcasters that have been able to get some

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some traction and some press out there.

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Yeah, possibly, but you know there are even.

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It's not huge numbers by any means.

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No, But I mean again, if if I think one

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of the reasons why Infinity is doing their experiment in

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San Francisco with an all podcast radio station is to

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to create a farm team of talent, because if they

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find anything particularly compelling out of all those contributions, why

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not put it on the radio?

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Yeah?

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Or it can really do some good, really move some needles,

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really generate some revenue, and really you know, satisfy a

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lot of listeners.

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Fast forward eight years to twenty thirteen today and how

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have things changed? Did we get it right back then?

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I have broadcast radio and media research consultant Mark Ramsey

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from Mark Ramsey dot com on the line right now

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to us the future of radio and podcasting and also

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what are the in car experiences that we can expect

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around on demand radio and podcasting? Are some hybrid of

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the two and what is it going to be like

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to combine broadcast radio and on demand radio like podcasting

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in the future. Mark, Welcome to the show, Thanks for

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joining me.

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Thank you, Rob, happy to be here.

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Yeah, we go way back. I remember having you on

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a show that I did for the IT Conversations network

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back in two thousand and five. It was part of

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my web talk radio show that I was doing, and

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we talked about a lot of cool stuff around the

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predictions of what it's happening with radio, because back in

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two thousand and five was kind of an early day's

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run at at online radio and podcasting was just kicking

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off back then, and we talked about radio topics back

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then relating to podcasts and online radio and streaming and

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how it appeared that those mediums, those new mediums were

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going to start taking a chunk of the radio listening time,

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and I thought that back then that shift was happening.

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Do you think that, thinking back after about eight years

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or so, that it's happened to the degree that you

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thought it was cock.

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Then, well, I think, first of all, whatever I said

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eight years ago, it was all correct. I don't know

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what it was, but I'm positive it was correct whatever

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it was. So there's that as far as Yeah, I

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think what we've been seeing in the interim, First of all,

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I think that conversation is I recall dealt a lot

233
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with podcasting in particular, which which particularly new and fresh

234
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at the time. In the interim, I think what we've

235
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really seen is the rise of the proverbial other where

236
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in a fixed amount of time, you can only devote

237
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it to a certain number of places. Yes, you can

238
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share more than one place at a time. I can

239
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watch TV and use a mobile device. I can watch

240
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TV and use a mobile device, and gosh, I guess

241
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I can have the radio on, but I can't listen

242
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to the radio and watch TV at the same time.

243
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So there's a limit to how attention can stretch and

244
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I think, what's It's not so much that all this

245
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stuff eats into everything else. It's that it nudges it

246
00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.159
aside a little bit, and that at the end of

247
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.720
the day, it's not that people it's a light switch

248
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.720
thing like VHS to DVD was. It's more of a

249
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kind of soft fade where things share, you know, the

250
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:27.000
personal bandwidth we call time.

251
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.759
Yeah, and there's only so much time to go around, right.

252
00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:31.759
So there is only so much time to go around.

253
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.159
And that, by the way, is why you see take

254
00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.759
a look at my opening present from the from the

255
00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:38.759
conference we're going to talk about later, and you'll see

256
00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:43.600
that I share some statistics about the changes in the

257
00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.399
average quarter hour rating for radio, which is the fraction

258
00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:50.320
of the population that's listening to radio right now over time,

259
00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.279
and the numbers are down. Radio industry, well, folks will

260
00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:56.679
tell you that, you know, there's tons of people listening

261
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.080
to radio, A huge fraction of everybody listens through to

262
00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.879
the radio. That may be true, but they're not spending

263
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.600
as much time as they used to. They're not here

264
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.240
as many occasions as they used to be. And the

265
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.879
reason is not just podcasts and Pandora. The reason is

266
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mobile devices and cell phones and iPhones and game boys

267
00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:23.559
and u Xbox and Netflix and everything else that Roku,

268
00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.440
everything else that distracts us and video games that attention

269
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that that that target our valuable attention.

270
00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.799
Yeah, and I think that that's a really fascinating point.

271
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I'm not sure that a lot of a lot of

272
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folks in podcasting are in the broadcast or radio business

273
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really think about that. Is that there their new competition

274
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is all these other forms of media out there that

275
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occupy people's people's mind share, right.

276
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.080
That's right. And the difficulty that audio has in general,

277
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and this is something I'm gearing up to write about this.

278
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I haven't really done it yet, but I've talked to

279
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.480
a couple of people about it. The difficulty of audio

280
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in general is that while a picture is worth a

281
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.879
thousand words, it takes a thousand words to paint a picture.

282
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And in a time when our time is stretched, when

283
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our attention is stretched, we may not want to devote

284
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.679
a thousand words worth of time. We don't devote. You know,

285
00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:18.600
it used to be you'd watch two minutes of a

286
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.000
YouTube video. Now it's like, you know, a six second

287
00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:27.480
vine is more than sufficient. Yeah, I mean The challenge

288
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:30.080
that audio has is that audio isn't suited to a

289
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.000
to a six second experience, right.

290
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.399
Yeah, And I think that. I mean, if you look

291
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.960
at places like YouTube, which you know, there's whole kind

292
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of new show shows that are coming online there that

293
00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.159
are less than five minutes long, you know, and it's

294
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.919
it's like I come from a generation and I probably

295
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.600
you do as well, that there is an expectation that

296
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content is longer than just two minutes, right. I mean,

297
00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:55.240
it's hard to get a lot of value out of

298
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:56.600
something that's only two minutes long.

299
00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.639
Well it used to be. But you know, then how

300
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.120
to playing these five minutes shows? How to explain the

301
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.559
fact that, you know, we can say it's not enough

302
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.000
time to deliver content, but then if people get only

303
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.839
two minutes of viewing out of a thirty minute video,

304
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.240
who are we to say that's not enough time?

305
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:12.599
Yeah?

306
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:15.720
Obviously the audience is spoken, and I think in the

307
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.440
audio context, the challenge is going to be that you

308
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.480
know these and I look, I create longer form content myself.

309
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:26.039
I do it for specialized audience. I recognize it's not

310
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.440
for everybody, but for anybody who's creating content that's intended

311
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for a broad audience. I think there's going to you're

312
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.960
going to have to think through how you capture and

313
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:39.720
sustain attention, and you're going to have to think through

314
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.680
how to formulate that content so as to match it

315
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:48.480
to people's desire, ability, and interest to allocate that attention

316
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:48.880
to you.

317
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:51.160
Yeah, And I think that's that's a little bit of

318
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.319
the tuggle war that we have going on with content today,

319
00:17:54.440 --> 00:18:00.920
is that oftentimes value comes from having more inform there, right,

320
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:05.359
versus shorter bites of information tends to be less detailed,

321
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.400
but those tend to get more attention these days because

322
00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.599
people are stretched, like you say, for their attention spans.

323
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:13.720
They don't have a couple of minutes to spend with something.

324
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.200
Or that's how we've trained ourselves now to think about,

325
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:22.839
you know, in the twitterization of media, is shorter is better,

326
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.920
but it may not necessarily be better in all genres

327
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.359
or all topics. And I think that's the tuggo war

328
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:29.599
that we have going on right now.

329
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.000
Well, we have to separate the what we mean by

330
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.839
better from what we mean by popular. Yeah, Because I mean,

331
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.519
you know, I think you look through five ways to

332
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.000
use pinterest for your business I mean, could I could

333
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.519
read that same article one hundred times and we have

334
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.400
five different ways each time, But as long as it's

335
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.519
phrased five ways, yeah, you know, that's what's going to

336
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.720
get read, because it's a lot shorter than ten ways

337
00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:59.480
or a long article with nothing bolded, nothing underlined, and

338
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.680
nothing no. I mean, but it's that kind of editorial

339
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.920
cosmetics almost that we need to apply to audio. And

340
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.799
I would direct people, people like you, people like everybody

341
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.319
quite frankly in this space to one of our most

342
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:20.799
derided art forms, television news, local television news, because there

343
00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:23.759
they take what could be hours of programming and they

344
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:29.799
spend a whole lot of time telescoping content, teasing content,

345
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:37.559
boiling down content, repeating content, excerpting content. I mean, there's

346
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:42.559
a science to it, and that science is built to grab, capture,

347
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:43.440
and sustain attention.

348
00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:46.359
Boy, and it can be frustrating though to go through it. Though.

349
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.759
It's like, when is that segment coming up in that

350
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:51.920
you know, in the news program that they promoed the

351
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:53.279
last four breaks.

352
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.920
Right, yes, speaking is the person who tuned in for

353
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.079
every one of those minutes to get to that segment exactly? Right?

354
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.920
Exactly? It's it's a struggle. But I oftentimes, and as

355
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.680
you were saying that, I was thinking one interesting way

356
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.599
to think about this is that maybe as content producers

357
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:13.119
we need to think more about shorter content as a

358
00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:17.920
catalyst for conversation. And maybe that's where the justification really

359
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.480
hits the road, is that maybe over time here, maybe

360
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.880
we're all going to become content providers that contribute to

361
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.960
the discussion that happens by the audience.

362
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.480
Right, what YouTube refer to as a catalyst for conversation,

363
00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.839
I would call a tease. Yeah, you know, I mean,

364
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:35.720
for example, that's.

365
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.920
Kind of that's kind of what talk radio was really

366
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.799
built on, right.

367
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.759
Yes, but talk radio is also built on the notion

368
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.039
that I'm going to talk for three hours today, three

369
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.680
hours tomorrow, three hours the next three days after that,

370
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.079
and if you miss any portion of what I talk about,

371
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.640
don't worry, because I'll be back tomorrow talking about just

372
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.960
about the same thing for the same length of time,

373
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:02.039
and you don't really miss anything. It's very much like

374
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:05.240
soap operas. Talk radio is like soap operas. You know,

375
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.160
you miss a day, you miss almost nothing. I had

376
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.880
a conversation with somebody, and I will not mention who

377
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.839
who was referring to a major talk radio talent and said,

378
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.440
you know, if we just reran his show from last

379
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.319
week today, would anybody notice? And somebody else in the

380
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:24.519
meeting said, last week, we could rerun his show from

381
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:29.559
last year and nobody would notice. Now, whenever that's the case,

382
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:34.079
what you're creating is wallpaper audio wallpaper. You're not really

383
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.319
creating something that is certainly for audience which have as

384
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.599
many choices as we have today in as many ways

385
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:47.960
to exercise those choices. That's the fundamental gap between kind

386
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.519
of spoken so called spoken word radio and all the

387
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:53.000
stuff that we can do online.

388
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.759
Yeah, with that, you know, part of what we talked

389
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:58.079
about back in two thousand and five was the shrinking

390
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:02.039
audience for broadcast and how that's going to impact you know,

391
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.880
kind of major trustrial broadcasters. How do you think that

392
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:08.759
the major trustrial broadcasters are are kind of adjusting to

393
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:09.279
this new.

394
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:15.359
World kicking and screaming with the emphasis side the emphasis

395
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.000
on screaming. And there's also look part of again, watch

396
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.599
the opening presentation I did for my high vo conference,

397
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.960
and you'll see how I lay this out because I said, look,

398
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:28.359
you know, the statistics that have been popularized in the

399
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:31.039
radio industry say more listeners than ever, et cetera, et cetera.

400
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:33.640
And when I show you the stats that say the

401
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.599
fraction of the population listening right now to the radio

402
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.720
is off nine percent in the past two years alone,

403
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.640
I mean, that's a chilling statistic. But I said, the

404
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.039
reason for that statistic isn't just paint some kind of,

405
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.880
you know, dank, dark picture about radio. It's to say

406
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.000
the radio is no different from any other major medium

407
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:58.759
with mass attention, television, film, They've all suffered this. People

408
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:01.400
are consuming as much more content than ever before, they're

409
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.240
just not doing it in the traditional channels to the

410
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:07.079
same extent. And why in the world would radio be different.

411
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:09.640
So when you buy into the notion that radio is

412
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.680
not different from those things, that it's not quite unquote

413
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:15.000
special compared to those things, then you have a basis

414
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.599
to plan that's based on reality rather than based on

415
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.359
you know, rainbows and unicorns. And I like to base

416
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.319
the future on reality. And I think a lot of

417
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.559
the broadcasters that are kicking and screaming are arguing that

418
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:37.200
nothing's broken. Where as relevant as ever, whereas used as ever,

419
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.279
people are here in the same numbers they always have been.

420
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.240
We're just not telling our story well enough. That to

421
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.960
me is naive.

422
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.519
Yeah. Well, it's also that erosion is happening, like you said,

423
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.640
to all the traditional media, I mean even movies there.

424
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.000
And it's okay, right.

425
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.279
They're happening because there's a lot more competition for people's

426
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:55.000
attention now.

427
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.599
It's okay, yeah, if you go to Paramount. I just

428
00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:59.319
read a book that I'm reading a book now that

429
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.200
talks about it talks about Linda Oaps is Sleepless in

430
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.680
Hollywood I think it's called and she talks about her

431
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.680
time at Paramount on the TV side, and she said

432
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.240
she goes into Paramount and Paramount views itself as a

433
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:17.880
multi platform content company. Paramount Pictures a multi platform content company.

434
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.680
And you know, ironically, one of the themes of my

435
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.759
presentation the other week was content and platforms. Content and platforms.

436
00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:27.319
What's the solution to shrinking attention. It's content and platforms.

437
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:30.680
It's being in more places, in more forms, whatever the

438
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.359
form is that fits that place for that particular audience,

439
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:36.680
and it's providing content that's worth seeking out. This, by

440
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.119
the way, is the fundamental opportunity in the dashboard too.

441
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:42.880
Yeah, it's just well, it's just moving to where people

442
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.480
are moving to, right, I mean, as a content around,

443
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:47.599
you have to move to where your audience is more

444
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:49.640
likely to be. And I think it's really just as

445
00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.359
simple as that. And that's I think that the radio

446
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.599
folks have kind of forgotten about, probably up to this point,

447
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.400
is that their audience is shifting they need to shift to.

448
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.759
Well, part of the challenge is that there, you know,

449
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:05.920
radio is evaluated based on radio ratings, and radio ratings

450
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.640
are passive instruments, so they'll, you know, they'll they'll passively

451
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.839
measure what audio signals are in the area. And that's fine,

452
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:19.240
but that is a universe of radio stations only, right,

453
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:22.519
So when I spend my time listening to a podcast,

454
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:25.279
all of that is off the shelf. When I spend

455
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.960
my time watching a Netflix, all of that is off

456
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.720
the shelf. When I spend my time, you know, playing

457
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.400
a video game, that's off the shelf. So wherever that

458
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:38.240
attention goes, wherever my time goes. If it's not to

459
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.039
another radio station, it's not measured. And if it's not measured,

460
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.200
it doesn't exist to radio. And if it doesn't exist,

461
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.279
how are they supposed to respond to us strategically, So

462
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:49.160
sooner or later, the business models need to catch up

463
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.960
with the choices available to consumers. Because here's what's going

464
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.599
to happen. Dollars will follow attention. Dollars will follow attention.

465
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.000
It may not be steady, it may not proportional, and

466
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:03.119
it may not be fast, but it is inevitable.

467
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.880
Yeah. And one other thing that we talked about back

468
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.599
back eight years ago was how Major reminded me about

469
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:14.960
this eight years then, that major celebrities were going to

470
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.680
lead the audience growth for podcasting, And I know, as

471
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.119
you think about it today, nothing's really changed in that front.

472
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.599
I think it's really fascinating if you think about broadcast

473
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.440
radio celebrities, right, like the Howard Stearns and the Sean

474
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:31.480
Hannity's and those those kind of folks that have built big,

475
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:35.599
big celebrity status around radio. A lot of those folks

476
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.960
are not really building big celebrity statuses on podcasting yet.

477
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:43.559
And there's a whole fresh new breed of the Kevin

478
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.680
Smiths and the Adam Krolaz and some of these guys

479
00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.559
have been able to make that shift, right, But where

480
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:53.279
do you see the whole development of major media celebrities

481
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.519
becoming big spoken word audio creators.

482
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:59.240
Look, the reason why you have a radio show rather

483
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:02.759
than open doors on a podcast is because you get

484
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:06.640
much more attention, much quicker, and that invites you know,

485
00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.640
besides the money, if there is any, you get much

486
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.680
more attention, much quicker. That's why even the people with

487
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:16.319
the podcast would trade their right arm for a radio

488
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.559
gig on top of that podcast, or at least a

489
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.000
radio piece to the podcast. Pie. Certainly Kevin Smith would, yeah, but.

490
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:23.519
I say that quite a few of them, like an

491
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.000
Adam Kroller, would not.

492
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:27.720
He says he would not. But if someone went to

493
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:30.720
Adam and said, Adam, with no additional work on your part,

494
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.480
we're going to air some of your podcasts and we're

495
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.079
going to write you the following check, Adam would say yes,

496
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:40.839
thank you sir. What Adam doesn't want to do is

497
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.279
trade in his podcast Empire and get another radio job

498
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:45.839
where he is to get up at four in the morning,

499
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:47.960
five days a week for four hours. And I don't

500
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:50.200
blame it, you know, I mean, this is part of

501
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:52.799
the problem. The problem is that Kevin Smith doesn't produce

502
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:56.079
nearly the amount of content that we expect the average

503
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.559
radio talk host to produce because the Internet doesn't require that.

504
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:03.240
You know, you and I as listeners don't require that.

505
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.440
Even radio listeners don't require that. Look, the reason why

506
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:09.119
radio talk radio shows are three hours long, five days

507
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:12.799
a week isn't because the average person listens to fifteen

508
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:13.880
hours of content.

509
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:15.640
It's tuning in and out.

510
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.279
Right, they're tuning in in and out. So, in other words,

511
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.119
it's built to be grazed, not to be consumed front

512
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.119
to back. So the stuff that podcasts are creating are

513
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:29.559
built ideally to be consumed front to back. You don't

514
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.200
need as much the problem that you know, that's a

515
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:35.759
challenge for broadcasters because in an ideal world, broadcasters would say, well,

516
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.920
here's this wealth of content Adam Carolla is creating. You

517
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:40.839
mean to tell me I can't figure out a way

518
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.480
to put that on my air and monetize that without

519
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:46.400
having fifteen hours of it a week or twenty hours

520
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:49.480
a week. Seriously, I mean, we're asking too much of people,

521
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:53.039
and that's why the talented people would rather put a

522
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.200
blue NeSSI mic on their table and record a radio

523
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.799
show for one hour a week, whether it's Ayisha Tyler,

524
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:04.640
Kevin Smith or Adam Carolla or now John Lovetz he's

525
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:05.440
going to do his own.

526
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.200
Yeah, I've seeing that. I've never seen a successful podcast

527
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.359
do three hours of content a day.

528
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.359
No, but you see our radio shows that repurpose their

529
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:19.279
shows as podcasts, in those run three hours a day,

530
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.759
and while they get downloaded a lot, I'm sure most

531
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.480
of it's not consumed. It can't possibly be consumed.

532
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:25.240
It's too much.

533
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.240
It's just too much. So the problem is, how do

534
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:30.119
you have this twenty four to seven three sixty five

535
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.279
broadcasting asset and make use of all this incredible content,

536
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:35.559
some of which may be very short short form.

537
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.000
Yeah. And also one other piece to this pie too,

538
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.200
is is that a lot of those podcasters that are

539
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.880
used to the freedom that exists on the digital side

540
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:50.799
with podcasting for language and length is also a big

541
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.559
factor there too. They can vary their weekly show or

542
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:56.920
their daily show. It can be twenty minutes, it can

543
00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.839
be an hour and a half, whatever they want to make.

544
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.880
It's not locked into a certain duration, and that would

545
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.680
be one big hindrance. So I would say, for like

546
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.920
Kevin Smith, is is around language right.

547
00:30:09.880 --> 00:30:11.799
Well, you know, but and Kevin said to me, though

548
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.799
he said, you know, look, I could work clean. And

549
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:17.640
not only can you work clean, but if I'm a

550
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:21.680
broadcast company and someone's providing the name brand, top drawer

551
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.640
content and all I have to do is hire an

552
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.160
editor for ten dollars an hour, I can hire an

553
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.480
editor for ten dollars an hour and they can edit

554
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.759
that show. And the question is, you know, if you

555
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:35.039
can run Loveline at ten pm at night Monday through Friday,

556
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:37.119
or whatever the heck it is, you know, why couldn't

557
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:40.240
you theoretically run you know, Kevin Smith's show or an

558
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.799
Adam Carolla show in that So why doesn't that make

559
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:46.839
economic sense? Why hasn't someone done that deal? Why haven't

560
00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:50.839
broadcasters evolved to the kind of model that they had

561
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.440
back in the forties where they were dealing with exclusive

562
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.519
content until television stole it. Here we go again. We've

563
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.200
got an op opportunity for more exclusive content. And for

564
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.640
any of these podcasts, Yes, they have their audiences, and

565
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.279
in many cases their audiences are big, their audience is

566
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.160
pale in comparison to what they could be if they

567
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.359
were exposed on the radio, flat out, unambiguously.

568
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:19.359
So what's going to happen here is it going to evolve.

569
00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.440
This content's going to evolve to be more like radio

570
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:24.160
or is it going to be evolved to be more

571
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:28.759
like online radio like a podcast. I mean, what's the

572
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.839
ultimate destination of this? Or are we going to continue

573
00:31:31.839 --> 00:31:36.200
to see two worlds coexist? I mean, as you think

574
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.640
about it, I know we're going to move into talking about,

575
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.079
you know, in car experiences, and I think that that question,

576
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:46.039
I think kind of galvanizes that topic, right is how

577
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:49.000
are those worlds going to kind of come together? Right?

578
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:51.119
Well, I think it's all part of one big world.

579
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.920
This is what's not understood well among broadcasters that there's

580
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:56.400
no such thing as radio is apart from Pandora, as

581
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.559
apart from podcasts. It's all part of one big spectrum.

582
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:01.960
If you take it out far enough, you could argue, well,

583
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.000
even video as part of that same spectrum. I'm working

584
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:08.559
with people now to do video versions of their radio stations.

585
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:12.200
Why not if it can be engineered and presented on

586
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.440
the plat on the digital platform, why shouldn't people be

587
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.680
able to tap into a video version of my radio

588
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.799
station such that all the songs roll one into the next,

589
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.759
just like a video music channel. Back in the day,

590
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.119
but it's my curated list of content, it's my DJs

591
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:28.519
with cameras in front of their faces.

592
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:28.920
Why not.

593
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.680
Yeah, well, let's go ahead and dive into the whole

594
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.119
topic of radio in the car, right and how that's

595
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.119
going to kind of evolve and change here. And I mean,

596
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.160
because we're already starting to see the early stages of that.

597
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.920
And at a fairly recent radio conference, I don't remember

598
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:49.680
what the name of it was, there was some panelists

599
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.079
from some car manufacturers that were saying that there's a

600
00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:56.960
plan or thought to remove AMFM radios from cars sometime

601
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:59.839
in the next five years or less. And I got

602
00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:03.000
the impression that that really kind of rattled the radio industry.

603
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:05.160
What was your observation when that happened?

604
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.440
That turned out to be very much a misquote, that

605
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:11.240
was a misremembering of the conversation, And when that conversation

606
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:13.519
was recalled was and when he went back to his

607
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.480
notes or the audio and that conversation, he realized that

608
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:21.079
he had completely misconstrued what that individual said. That individual

609
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:25.480
did not imply what you just said. So, I mean,

610
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:28.599
but the evidence is quite clear. Look, anybody who understands

611
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.160
consumers know that nobody wants anything taken away. They only

612
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:35.240
want things added the people who want who I want

613
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.119
the choice of not using a VHS anymore, thank you

614
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:40.279
very much. I don't want you to choose it for me.

615
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.039
And when enough people like me make our choice, that's

616
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:47.279
when you make yours, and not until then, you don't

617
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.759
arbitrarily tell me what my options are going to be,

618
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.759
mister automaker. So that AMFN thing was always a misunderstanding

619
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:57.400
from the get go. The automakers do plenty of research

620
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.920
and know exactly what people want, so I'm not worried

621
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:01.599
about that at all.

622
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:04.759
So to kind of jump into that, where the reality

623
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:07.200
of that comment came from was what was the fact

624
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.559
that there's going to be more experiences coming into the

625
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:12.559
car that will be connected up with either your mobile

626
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.480
phone or directly connected to three G or four G

627
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:18.480
networks into the head unit of the vehicle itself. So

628
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.280
basically what's going to happen is that the car is

629
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:26.079
going to become like a mobile computer. Basically that's going

630
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:29.840
to have apps, and the Pandora apps or stitch your

631
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:34.119
apps or whatever service that you want to want to

632
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:39.119
use will ultimately be probably available in your car through

633
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:42.159
either through your phone or through the head unit of

634
00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:45.960
the vehicle. And how do you think that if that

635
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:48.440
in fact is the case, that that's the direction of

636
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.280
things are going that certainly looks like it, how do

637
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:53.239
you think that's going to impact the radio industry? How

638
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.960
are they going to you think evolve with that scenario.

639
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:58.480
I think they're going about it the wrong way so far,

640
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:01.440
because the way they're going about it so is, you know,

641
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.119
let's be everywhere, let's have you know, have mobile apps,

642
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.119
let's be accessible in the car in more ways and

643
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:11.239
forms and so on. I think you need to recognize

644
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.039
that if people stray, they're going to stray because something

645
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:18.800
is compelling them to do, something is attracting them. So

646
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.800
success in the car is increasingly going to be about

647
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:29.639
attracting people to a destination, not about defending turf that

648
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.639
was yours simply because it was a black box nobody

649
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.400
could gain access to, which is historically how it's been.

650
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:40.519
It's been either you know, eight tracks, cassettes, CDs, now

651
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:46.280
chords going into your iPhones, ultimately just about anything. So

652
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:48.800
this notion that radio used to own kind of the

653
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.480
dynamic content in the car. Now radio will be one

654
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.800
of many ways to get dynamic content in the car.

655
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:59.159
So what's going to happen, Well, the advantage is going

656
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:03.599
to shift to the most compelling dynamic content in the car,

657
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.840
and most compelling. Maybe compelling for me is different from

658
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.559
compelling for you. So in other words, it should be

659
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.639
a battle for content. It should be about having the

660
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.679
most unique and compelling content they possibly can have, especially

661
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:20.159
since radio uniquely right now has the ability to kind

662
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:27.039
of attract groom and popularize that kind of content. At

663
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.639
least it has that possibility. Whether it's whether it's exercising

664
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:31.920
it or not, it's another question.

665
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:35.480
So where do you see satellite radio fitting into the

666
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.119
picture here?

667
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.559
I think satellite radio is going to continue to tinker along,

668
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:43.800
to tick along and grow modestly year after year. I mean,

669
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:46.280
it's basically built into every new car. Now you have

670
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.000
to decide not to take it. You don't decide to

671
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.440
take it. That's a critical thing, by the way, I mean,

672
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.840
who wouldn't want there. It would be like putting your

673
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:59.199
podcast on every new car and say you're subscribed for

674
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:03.679
six months. After that you have to decide to cancel it.

675
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:09.000
It's versus Hey, hopefully you'll find out about this. Hopefully

676
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.639
you'll stick this on your car, hopefully you'll subscribe to this. Well,

677
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:15.880
one is infinitely more likely than the other. It's way

678
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:18.400
more difficult to cancel satellite radio than it is to

679
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:21.000
sign up for it. So the fact that it's built

680
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.480
in standard equipment makes all the difference in the world.

681
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:27.000
That means people have to stop using it. So I

682
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.960
think it's going to continue to chug along in and

683
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.360
continue to be a valid source for attention. Certainly, they've

684
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.599
got a lot of you know, quality content on there

685
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.639
in addition to the you know, the music channels will

686
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:41.920
be pretty redundant to what you can get from other places.

687
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.280
But if I'm accustomed to being in a satellite radio environment,

688
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:46.559
why do I need the other places?

689
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:47.320
You know?

690
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.360
Pandora's a great solution if I want to personalize my music,

691
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.719
But it's not a great solution if I just want

692
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.079
a good jazz station, or a good hip hop station,

693
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.960
or a good pop station. I can get that from serious.

694
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:03.199
Yeah, or even a good spoken word program or station. Right.

695
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:08.320
Well, you know with Pandora, that's right, and that's that's

696
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:09.679
another conversation we can have.

697
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:14.000
Yeah. So, given the history of radio, you know, it's

698
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:20.000
been focused primarily on local live events, music, talk, news, talk,

699
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:24.639
and other spoken content. So as you think about Pandora,

700
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.760
Pandora is very focused on music, right, It's trying to

701
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.599
create a terrific experience around music. It seems to me

702
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.119
like either one of two things is going to happen.

703
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:37.639
Either one or more of these big music platforms is

704
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:41.039
going to adopt the full spectrum of what people expect

705
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:44.559
from radio, or we're going to have just like the

706
00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.719
iPhone today, there's separate apps for everything, right, and you

707
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:49.679
have to have this, you know, a separate app for

708
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.719
talk radio, separate app for live events, a separate app

709
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.480
for music, and separate app for this and that. And

710
00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:56.960
how do you see that playing out?

711
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.239
Well, you know, I think that's going to be an

712
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:03.119
attempt to create, you know, a rainbow of options including

713
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:05.800
all of the above. I mean, that's what's certainly what's

714
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.199
going to be created is all of the above. Now,

715
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:09.920
what's going to be popular may not be all of

716
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:14.360
the above, because you have this these conflicting realities. On

717
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.960
the one hand, there's going to be a temptation to

718
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:21.519
pack in more features right. On the other hand, the

719
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.800
stuff that's most easily communicated is the stuff that's simplest

720
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:28.360
to convey, and the simpler you are, the more single

721
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.559
focus the problem you solve. Right, So, yeah, here's the

722
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:36.440
live event app. Great, here's the only personalized music app. Great,

723
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.440
you start grouping that together. Now I can get news

724
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:42.760
in my personalized music. Okay, well I didn't know about that. Okay,

725
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.760
Now I can turn on and off personalities. Okay, well

726
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:47.639
I don't know if I need that or not. But

727
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.320
it's a little hard to describe. And the herd the

728
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.760
more stuff you pack in, the harder it is to describe,

729
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.559
and the shakier the assumption that you're solving a problem,

730
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.239
and the more it looks like what you really doing

731
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:03.880
is trying to recreate radio on a different platform. And

732
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.280
the thing about radio is that it works quite well

733
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.440
for what it does, for what it's intended to do,

734
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:10.519
and for what people to look to it for. It

735
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:13.199
is great. Radio does a great job. We don't look

736
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.280
to our radio to be personalized. We don't look to

737
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:17.840
our radio to be commercial free. We say we wish

738
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.039
it were, but we also are not inclined to pay

739
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.719
for it. And if we are, there are ways to

740
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.800
do that, and most people clearly do not. So, you know,

741
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.000
what we say we want and what we we gravitate

742
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:32.760
for are two different things. There's going to be a

743
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:37.639
temptation for nice, clean, lean things like a Pandora to grow,

744
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:40.679
you know, warts all over the place in a search

745
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:47.400
for new listener value propositions. And as their CTO said

746
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:49.239
to me, you know at the high View event a

747
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.400
couple of weeks ago, they're going to move very cautiously

748
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.599
down that path because they don't know, first of all,

749
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.559
that they need to. There's this expectation they will from

750
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.159
this notion that somehow everything's going to end up looking

751
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:04.320
like radio and radio like everything else. But I don't

752
00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:08.159
think that's necessarily true. He did, however, hint of where

753
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:12.239
they would likely evolve if they evolve out of music only,

754
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:14.280
and I thought that was pretty interesting.

755
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:17.440
Actually, yeah, I think it was something around the making

756
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:22.079
shows that would be about music, right, as almost like

757
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:25.440
a suggestion engine or a sampling tool, right or something

758
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:25.840
like that.

759
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:30.239
Well, basically, the implication that he gave was that any

760
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:33.679
non music content on the radio would be non music

761
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.920
content about music. Yeah, so that tells me it's more

762
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:43.079
of a you know, like a It reminds me of

763
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:48.000
the early days of FM radio. Yeah, when you know

764
00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:50.880
you have the they were playing these, you know, crazy

765
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:54.000
rock tunes that you couldn't hear anywhere else. God knows,

766
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.199
your favorite AM Top forty station wouldn't play them. And

767
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.400
they had DJs that, you know, knew something about the artists,

768
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:03.199
knew something about the music, and talked about that. I mean,

769
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:05.239
it may be kind of a return to that because

770
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:09.199
Pandora is a very music centric experience, and I don't

771
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.639
mean that just in terms of the quality of the content,

772
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:17.480
but the attraction to people who are interested in music.

773
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.800
Yeah, I think it's more what built a lot of

774
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.559
music is like a K Rock out of Los Angeles, right,

775
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:29.000
that would have bands on to talk about the music

776
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:31.400
and things like that. So is that more like what

777
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:31.880
you're thinking.

778
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:33.599
I don't know if it would be bands, but it

779
00:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.079
would probably be people who know music.

780
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:38.199
Yeah, Okay, I say what you're saying, But it could

781
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.559
be it could be you know, singers, or it could

782
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:42.880
be bands or whatever that could come through and think it.

783
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.119
Could be there they go too far down that path.

784
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:48.159
I think they'll hear about it because anyone who's ever

785
00:42:48.199 --> 00:42:51.519
listened to a band interview knows that few things are

786
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:54.719
as you know, maybe short of getting teeth pulled. As

787
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:56.239
unpleasant as that.

788
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:58.639
It can be, it can be. You're exactly right. So

789
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.000
I guess if you think about what the history of

790
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.960
broadcast radio has been, it has been fairly siloed into

791
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.679
separate channels. Right, So you have a radio station that's

792
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:09.840
focused on music, and then you have a radio station

793
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.760
that's focused on talk and live and news, weather and

794
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.800
sports station. And I guess you could draw the same

795
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:20.679
analogy to apps, right, that could. That's very similar to

796
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:24.400
that kind of concept in people's minds. My only concern

797
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:27.280
about that is as you look at ease of use

798
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:31.920
and simplicity and safety in the car, right around complexity

799
00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:36.639
being able to navigate this this world of apps and

800
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:40.519
these worlds of content successfully in the car. I don't

801
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:41.559
know what's your thoughts on that.

802
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.719
Well, I guess that's where a lot of the heat

803
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.719
is right now. I mean, wasn't it Ford that had

804
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:50.840
to put knobs back in their car? Yes, because not

805
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.079
because of the complexity of the dash, but because all

806
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:56.639
those buttons. It just you know, people wanted knobs. People

807
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:00.480
embrace something that look Knobs are the mechanical equips dilevalent

808
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:05.400
of radio. People are comfortable with what they're comfortable with,

809
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.960
and you don't fix what ink bro. So the problem

810
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:11.440
that broadcasters are going to face is not that they

811
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:13.840
need to be in places in the dashboard that they aren't.

812
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:16.519
The problem's going to be they need to be worth

813
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.360
listening for people who now have infinitely more choices.

814
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:24.199
Yeah, so they need to be better content creators, is

815
00:44:24.199 --> 00:44:24.679
what you're saying.

816
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:28.719
Better content creators. And you know what again, if I'm

817
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.480
Clear Channel, if I'm CBS, if I'm Cumulus right now,

818
00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:37.199
and Kevin Smith is out there producing audio content for free, essentially,

819
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.039
I want to do a deal with him, Don't I

820
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.039
Don't I want to do a deal with him. Don't

821
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:44.000
I want to do a deal with Adam Corolla. Don't

822
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.320
I want to have these assets in my portfolio in

823
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:50.000
some way? Don't I want to try and monetize this content?

824
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.519
Given this is this may not be the future of radio,

825
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:53.719
This is the future of attention.

826
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.840
Yeah. I think that I think you could draw a

827
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.599
similar analogy to what's happening with YouTube and the Big

828
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.559
studio is that there's this kind of this envy that's

829
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.679
starting to brew around video content too, moving from from

830
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.920
the online medium back to broadcasts, and you're seeing podcasts

831
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:13.280
make that jump too, where there's you know, like a

832
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.840
Mark Marin being successful in podcasting and then taking that

833
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.880
same kind of concept right in the same kind of

834
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.800
show and converting it into a video program or a

835
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.320
TV show. So you have this kind of this cross

836
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:28.840
media thing. And I think it's back to what you

837
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:31.880
were talking about, It's just it's about content. Really, this

838
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.400
whole method of distribution gets a little bit becomes a

839
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.159
little bit more, not as relevant to the conversation, right,

840
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:39.079
It's right.

841
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:42.800
I mean, you know, ultimately you're a you're a platform

842
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:48.559
content company like Paramount Pictures, and what do they do.

843
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:54.800
They do deals with talent. They they wrap them around projects,

844
00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:00.840
and they spread those projects and that talent different forms,

845
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.119
shapes and sizes across different platforms and then they do

846
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:07.840
it again. That's what they do. And they don't always work,

847
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.400
and it is not cheap, but when it pays off,

848
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:13.800
it pays off. Otherwise you wouldn't do it at all.

849
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:19.280
And I think that's the that's the opportunity going forward

850
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.679
is for Ready to look at some of these things

851
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.159
and say, man, you know what what if we got

852
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:26.400
in business with Kevin Smith? What would that look like?

853
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:28.800
You know, what could we what if we have a

854
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:31.440
meeting with Kevin Smith and we say, Kevin, you know

855
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:34.119
we're clear channel. What can we do for you? And

856
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.920
then what can you do for us? Let's put aside

857
00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.400
what it costs. Let's just talk about what we can

858
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.360
do together. Same for you know, Corolla. Not hey Adam,

859
00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:45.480
we want to hire you for twenty hours a week,

860
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.000
fifty weeks a year. That's the wrong conversation. That's not

861
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:50.599
the one he wants to have at any price.

862
00:46:50.760 --> 00:46:53.360
Yeah, he just wants it to be a project that

863
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.039
he can work on the dovetails with what he's already doing. Right,

864
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.800
not necessarily be a standalone job, but it would be

865
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.519
kind of like another way that he can distribute his brand, right,

866
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.840
that the broadcast folks can take advantage of.

867
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:08.840
Just that's right, I mean. Kevin Smith told me that

868
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:11.400
when he does morning radio shows, which he does regularly

869
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:13.119
because he does them in the markets where he does

870
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:16.280
live events, he said, the morning radio shows are what

871
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:18.960
sell the live events. That's what makes the live events

872
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:20.519
sell out is when he does the morning.

873
00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:23.079
Radio show, and he makes most of his money.

874
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:24.880
And that's how he makes his money from the morning,

875
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:29.840
from the live events. I mean, you can't get into

876
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:33.960
that business with somebody. I mean you can't. Again, it's

877
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.719
just I'm incredulous at this the idea that people don't

878
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:38.960
look at this and say, how do we get in

879
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.039
business with talent such that the talent achieves their goals,

880
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:46.000
we achieve ours, and together we make something bigger than

881
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:48.920
either of us could have otherwise. There is no question that,

882
00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:51.320
and I'll just use this as an example. Clear Channel

883
00:47:51.320 --> 00:47:54.880
with Kevin Smith does new, different, profitable things that they

884
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.039
can't do without. And there's no question that Kevin Smith

885
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.639
with clear Channel gets more attention and more money than

886
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:03.159
he can without, no question.

887
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:07.159
Yeah, that's right. So maybe that's something that we're going

888
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:08.519
to see happen over the next.

889
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:10.960
You and I need a broadcastle. That's quite hot.

890
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:14.639
Well, anyway, let's talk a little bit about your online

891
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:18.079
radio conference that you did hi vo.

892
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:20.679
Right Ivoh that's right, Yes, as in a hive of

893
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:23.760
smart people kind of in and around the radio space. Yeah,

894
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:26.320
it was intended to be kind of the first of

895
00:48:26.360 --> 00:48:29.960
its kind radio ideas festival where we bring in people.

896
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:31.800
It was here in San Diego a couple of weeks ago.

897
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:34.320
We bring in at hivo dot Com. We bring in

898
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:39.039
people hiv Io from outside radio and talk about ideas

899
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:41.519
that might be relevant to people in radio. I don't

900
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:42.920
know the whole list of people we had there. We

901
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:46.119
had everybody from the CEO of the San Diego Union Tribune,

902
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:49.280
obviously a huge local media company in southern California, to

903
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:51.719
the head of a digital agency in the area. We

904
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:56.440
had some entrepreneurs who had some great platforms that they

905
00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:00.320
were pitching to broadcasters. We had a guy who is

906
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.599
the head of something called National Comedy Theater, which does improv,

907
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:07.920
and he did some improv demos and brought people on

908
00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.800
the stage and it was touchy feel. It was awesome

909
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.920
because again, you know what happens behind the mic. That's

910
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.000
why he was there. And you know, nobody ever talks

911
00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:18.199
to improv people about stuff like that. They only talk

912
00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.159
to each other. And that's one of the main leave

913
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.599
behinds of the event was we got to stop talking

914
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:29.360
just amongst ourselves and start reaching out to people outside

915
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:31.360
of the industry, which is where all the good ideas are,

916
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:33.239
which where all the ideas are for that matter.

917
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:36.079
It's true. That's certainly true. And I know that a

918
00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:38.800
lot of those sessions from that conference are available on

919
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:39.320
your website.

920
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:39.800
Right.

921
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:42.119
Well, what we're doing is, you know, as intended as

922
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.719
a media event, not as a money making conference. I mean,

923
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.719
the conference itself was free. It was invitation only. It

924
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:51.880
was you know, fifty to seventy five seats, and it

925
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:57.000
was free. And every presentation is going to be one

926
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:59.599
week at a time. Basically, we're posting him to my

927
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:03.639
site at Markramesimedia dot com. And so far, we put

928
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:06.199
up my opening presentation last week. The Q and A

929
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:11.760
with the CTO of Pandora happens next week. It'll go

930
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:14.559
up at the top of the week, and that's going

931
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.760
to be exciting, and then we'll keep rolling them out thereafter.

932
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:19.159
And here's the thing about this is it's getting so

933
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.480
much attention. I mean, the we live streamed it. In

934
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.000
the live streams alone have a communal. I don't know,

935
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:27.239
it's probably up to about eleven hundred views at this point,

936
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.159
which for a vertical thing in the radio industry is

937
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:33.079
a lot. I don't know, we're probably between three fifty

938
00:50:33.079 --> 00:50:35.920
and four hundred views on my opening presentation at this point,

939
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:38.159
and every single one of these is going to do that.

940
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.360
So we're going to have thousands of communal views on

941
00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:43.840
the content of this event, which makes it well larger

942
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:48.079
than any other radio industry happening this year in terms

943
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.920
of exposure and impact. And my intention, my desire is

944
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:56.119
to make this as much a movement as an event,

945
00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:59.480
because the theme of the whole thing was content and

946
00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:03.760
platform sure, and without content and platforms, we're just a

947
00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:07.360
utility and who cares about the electric company?

948
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:10.599
So are you gonna hold the event next year or two?

949
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:15.639
The plan? Well, you know, I have not definitely said yes,

950
00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:21.760
but all signs as as the as the a crystal

951
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:23.280
ball with all signs point to yes.

952
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:28.039
Okay, fantastic, that's great. Well, I'm definitely gonna follow it

953
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:30.440
and watch all of the videos because I know that,

954
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.119
you know a lot of the things that you talked

955
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:33.960
about a very similar to what we've talked about today,

956
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.199
but you're actually talking to the industry leaders and people

957
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:40.000
that are working in different parts of this that can

958
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.199
actually make it happen, So it'll be interesting to follow out.

959
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:45.280
And then once you also tell us a little bit

960
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:48.880
about your company, Mark Ramsey Media and what you're trying

961
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:49.159
to do.

962
00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:53.280
There sure well, the company, I do two things. I

963
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:58.400
do strategic research for broadcasters and people like broadcasters, so

964
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:02.000
people in this space, in around the space television and radio,

965
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:06.159
and you know, research design to get more audience, get

966
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.599
more engagement, get more ratings, whatever it may be. And

967
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:11.400
then the other thing I do is really strategy consultations,

968
00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:15.159
so I'll work with brands, I'll work with entrepreneurs, I'll

969
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.039
work with people in and around the radio space trying

970
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:21.679
to get you know, smart, new forward thinking projects off

971
00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:26.199
the ground, or to try and bring their strategies on

972
00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:29.519
trend and make them more effective. Because you know, there's

973
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.239
so much going When the very definitions of an industry

974
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:35.360
are in flux, it's a time of great volatility but

975
00:52:35.480 --> 00:52:39.719
also time of great potential, and navigating that path is

976
00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:41.639
really critical. And in order to do that, you've got

977
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:44.119
to kind of see things clearly. You've got to see

978
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.599
your strengths and weaknesses clearly, you have to see what

979
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:49.760
the opportunities are clearly, and you have to not read

980
00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:53.400
from you know, industry propaganda bullet points. You have to

981
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:57.880
recognize that making plans for the future is going to

982
00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.960
be much more successful if you make them based on

983
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.400
the truth of today, not the you know, wishful thinking

984
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:03.840
of today.

985
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:06.400
Where are the best places for people listening to this

986
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.079
to read more about you and follow what you're doing.

987
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:15.320
The blogs at Markramseymedia dot com, twitters at Mark Ramsey Media,

988
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:17.320
R A, M. S. E. Y. That's Mark with a K.

989
00:53:18.159 --> 00:53:23.320
And then the event, which is a whole separate sign

990
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.280
up thing is high vo dot com. And what's cool

991
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:28.519
about that is I'm trying to make that kind of

992
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:31.639
an exclusive club, So anybody who signs up there, I'm

993
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:35.559
sending the videos to those people early they get. Last

994
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:41.360
week I included the SlideShare deck from the presentation, which

995
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.320
I published nowhere else, So I'm trying to put some

996
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:46.360
exclusive goodies in there too for anybody who bothers to

997
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:47.159
sign up for iveal.

998
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:50.719
Sure, that's great, well, Mark, thanks so much for spending

999
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.480
so much time with me.

1000
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.360
Rob, thank you, and don't be a stranger for another

1001
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:55.639
eight years of course.

1002
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.679
Not no, no. I think we're in a whole new

1003
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:01.000
new phase of podcasting and the line side, and I'm

1004
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:03.400
I'm really excited about it, and you know, I'm really

1005
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:07.400
excited to see what Norm Pettit's from podcast one is

1006
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.239
going to pull off. I don't know if you're following

1007
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:12.039
him and what he's doing trying to take the model

1008
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:14.960
that he built around Westwood one and transferring it over

1009
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:15.920
to the online side.

1010
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:17.400
Yeah, we'll see. It's very interesting.

1011
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.159
Well, Mark, thanks, thank you. Yeah, it was certainly great

1012
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:24.440
to speak with Mark again. Go check out his his

1013
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:29.159
conference website at h I v io dot com and

1014
00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:34.239
also his website at Mark Ramsey Media dot com. Well

1015
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:36.800
that's it for this week, and I'm Rob Greenley, the

1016
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:39.440
podcast guy for Windows Phone. Thanks again for listening to

1017
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:42.440
my thoughts here. I also co host the New Media

1018
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.519
Show every Saturday morning at nine am Pacific stand of

1019
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:48.280
time noon Eastern time with Todd Cochran, who's the CEO

1020
00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:52.599
of Raw Voice, the maker of the power press plug

1021
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:57.039
in for WordPress. You can catch that live show at

1022
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:01.800
Geeknewcentral dot com and you can and also get past

1023
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:06.039
shows at new Mediashow dot com. Is the place to

1024
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:10.360
get the past shows that we've done. And I definitely

1025
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.440
want to hear from you on any ideas that you

1026
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:18.239
have for topics for this show and what you think

1027
00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:20.800
really about the topics that I cover on this show

1028
00:55:20.840 --> 00:55:23.280
and get your ideas. I will definitely mention them on

1029
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:26.199
the show, and if you want to send those to

1030
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:29.800
Rob at Rob Greenley dot com, that'd be great. If

1031
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:33.000
you have a desire to create an audio episode, you're

1032
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.400
certainly welcome to send me an MP three and I

1033
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.159
can play that and then comment after your comments on

1034
00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:41.599
the show. And if you want to reach me on Twitter,

1035
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:45.159
I can also be found at Rob Greenley and you

1036
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:47.920
can also leave comments in my blog at Rob Greenley

1037
00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:51.480
dot com. So if you're a podcaster and you want

1038
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:54.880
to get your podcasts into the Windows Phone Zoom podcast

1039
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:59.280
area at Microsoft, shoot me your feed to podcasts at

1040
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:02.760
Microsoft dot com. And thanks for listening this week, and

1041
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:06.000
we'll be back with a new episode next week. Thanks bye,