Bitcoin: Trust How It All Works at $100k+ | Gary Leland - Ep 14

0:04 Well, thank you for being here with me on the Trust Factor Show. In our life, it's essential and trust is such a big impact on our happiness, our safety, and our security in the world today. And I think this topic that we're going to cover today is very important because trust in our lives is so important now and with so many changes happening right now in our world and in the future. So that's what this show is really has always been about. This is the fourteenth episode of this show. My name is Rob Greenley, and in today's episode, we're going to discuss bitcoin and the fact that it's just it's not just any cybercurrency, it's really the foundation of a revolution of sorts and really we need to find out why trusting or not using bitcoin could shape our financial future good or bad. So that's what we're going to find out today and really get into the details of bitcoin, the phenomenon that's been going on. And to discuss this, we have a fantastic guest.

1:04 He's a bitcoin expert. His name is Gary Leland and he runs the bit block Boom conference that's going on April of twenty twenty five, and he's also a podcast Hall of Famer and was the original one of the co founders of the podcast Hall of Fame of which I'm the chairperson of now and has been a long time video creator and has been creating all sorts of content for many years, even like softball and all these other types of content that he's been a leader. And he's also the co founder of podcast Movement, which has been known as the largest podcasting conference in the world, and has really been a lifelong leader in business and has been a visionary and many years ago he pivoted to really focusing on bitcoin, and I think it's such a timely time for us to talk about bitcoin right now.

1:56 So Gary, thank you for joining me on the show. Oh happy to join. You been the same circles for a long time since yea Ontario, Canada, our Ontario California day, you know when we had the conference out there. That was a long time ago. Yeah, And you really pulled me aside at one of the podcasting conferences and really was talking about bitcoin with me, and it caused me a few years ago to this. I think it was back in like twenty twenty ors something like that when I started to invest in bitcoin, and I think that was still a relatively early time, I think the price of bitcoin was quite a bit lower than it is today. As we record this, we're like right. On the cuff, are on the cusp of crossing that one hundred thousand.

2:37 Mark could happen during this show. Actually yeah, I mean that's like five minutes in bitcoin world. Yeah, I can pull this up. There's a bunch of different charts, And what's interesting about this is that not all of the exchange charts all say the same number, which is very interesting to me. I didn't really realize that. So here there are few percent to go to Coinbase versus River versus anyone else. They're all going to be a little different than whenever I'm doing mine, I use the worldwide average, so it averages out all the charts at all the different exchanges, because the exchange's price is going to vary on how much they got to sell. I mean, let's face, if you've got one bitcoin left they sit in your inventory to sell, it's probably gonna be higher than if you have one hundred thousand left in your inventory. And right now, inventories are the lowest that they've ever been in the history of bigcoin.

3:29 So what do you think that means for the price, given that it's the lowest that they've ever been, I mean, does that mean that the price is likely to go up faster? Yeah. Yeah, It's a supply and demand. It's simple. A simple thing is supplying demand. You know, in the last year or so, we've had one big purchaser of bitcoin, for instance, her ETFs, you know, electronically traded funds. I'm gonna use black Rock as an example because they're the biggest, they buy the most every day. But they had a gold ETF. Most people are familiar with gold ETFs. They've had that for let's say twenty years. Well, Bitcoin, the bitcoin ETF has passed the gold ETF in one year, so twenty years for that ETF to get where it's at. Bitcoin is already pasted it in one year. So and they're only one of maybe eleven ETFs that are buying bitcoin.

4:18 Blackrock hall Away ever sells it. I think with Blackrock is they have so many funds that people invest in that they put their ETFs in those funds. So they put their bitcoin ETF, they have that other ETFs they owned by their bitcoin ETF, so they're absorbing a massive amount. Of it yeah, Gary, this feels like such a massive change that is really I think difficult for a lot of people to cover him. But could you comment really quick about what we're seeing on the screen. Here the time chain calendar dot com forward slash e N which is English version. Yeah, this is calendar. A friend of mine made this a few years ago. And this is like a clock going around in a circle here and you can fillow the wheel and every ten minutes the clock makes a full rotation. Because every ten minutes bitcoin closes a block, it'll flash. However, you set it up to show you block's just been mined. You can look at the block, see how many transactions that were in the block. These are a lot of things that geeks want to know, what mining, who will won the block and they would get like three and an eighth bitcoin for that. And then at the bottom it has a slider you can go all the way back to day one and look at every block, look at the price on every block, how much bitcoin was there every day. It's got a lot of tools like that that a real geeky bitcoiner would want to use. This is this is like a total geek bitcoin cool the ways more than the average person would use.

5:43 Yeah, I think it's it is important to think about this is that we are entering a new kind of paradigm of the financial system, right and if bitcoin it becomes as successful as people think it is, it's going to be helpful for people to have a deeper understanding of how this all works. Man, it's very complex. So what does that number eight seventy one five twenty nine mean. This is block number eight hundred and seventy one thousand, five hundred and twenty nine. So what is this block? Well, bitcoin is electronic files on a computer, and all the bitcoin, all twenty one million bitcoin, are made. They're not being made, they have all been made for twelve years, but they're being dished out some every ten minutes. And that's how it gets into the ecosystem of the bitcoin world, is every ten minutes some more gets dropped out. In every four years, the amount of bitcoin it gets dropped out or put into the ecosystem gets cut in half.

6:38 So for the first four years you got fifty bitcoins if you won a block or a ten minute payout. The next four years you got twenty five. Next four years you get twelve and a half. In six and a quarter. Now it's three in and eighth. So a block is all these transactions of bitcoin every ten minutes go in this let's just say electronic container. I'm going to say, so I got it a toughware job, and every time a transaction was made, to throw it in that tuughleware jar. And then when the ten minutes is up, the lid goes on the templeware jar. And a minor somewhere across the world was the first one to do the mining process, and they they get paid for confirming those transactions, and another block starts on top. Once the other block starts on top, that one's sealed. You can't get it anymore. It's sealed forever. And that's called the blockchain.

7:25 So the blockchain is continuous blocks being built on top of each other that contain all the information from all the transactions for the last ten minutes. Each block has ten minutes worth of transactions in it, and whoever is awarded confirming that block, whatever mining company, they get the reward, which I says three in the eighth Right Now, mining is a hard thing for people to understand. I have a lot of people who talk to me, goes trying to understand this bitcoin for I buy any I just can't understand that mining. I can't understand how that works. And I usually go, do you really know how email works? And they'll go know, and I say, okay, Well, unless you plan on mining, you really don't understand how it works. It's not a big issue. All you really need to know is it's been going on for fourteen years now and people have been trying to hack it for fourteen years and haven't been able to get into it. So you can rest assured. If you want to just find out about that's fine, but you shouldn't be going I need to find that out before I get involved. You should go ahead and get involved, and you'll learn that process, just because bitcoin's like a rabbit hole. Once you go down the bitcoin rabbit hole, you start learning things that you had no idea before. You start finding out about banking, you start finding out about the Fort Knox, you start finding out about the FED, You start finding out about what money is. Most people think they know what money is, but they don't. They have money, they work for money, they spend money, but they really have no idea what money is. And once you go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

8:48 You start learning these things, you have a desire to learn these things, and there's so much stuff you don't know. If you're listening to the Bitcoin podcast all the time, you'll hear things. I don't know what that word is. But as time goes by, you get more educated. And only way I have found for people to really get into it and get educated is to have some skin in the game. You have some skin in the game, You're going to make sure and they I'm learning what's going on, you don't have any skin in the game. You're not and you might, but the odds are you aren't, and then they'll pass you by. So the guy who created it, so Toshi Nakamoto, as he said, when it was like a penny or lower than a penny, he said, you might want to buy some of this. You never know, I might catch on. Now it's one hundred thousand dollars, I'd say call it all. That was a good advance.

9:29 So this term mining has been thrown around bitcoin for a long time, and I don't feel like it's widely known what that really means. And I guess, how what are those servers doing? Because there's very dedicated servers to mining for bitcoins. So what term actually term mining? They shouldn't call it that. Okay, but what are they actually what are those servers actually doing. There's a the largest computer network in the world is the bitcoin mining network. And right now, when it first started, you could do it on your laptop. I mean, you can be sitting in your doorroom in college using free electricity. Didn't take that much electricity even mining on your laptop getting fifty bitcoin every other day, and there's a lot of people in that situation. But now it's progressed where you have to use ACIK minor now a SICK miners that stands for application specific mining, and that means this miner does one thing. All it does is mine bitcoin.

10:23 Is what I'm gonna get into it. I'm gonna get in there. So if you decide to throw that computer to do something else with that computer, you can't do it. That's why people can't mind freely anymore on the computers, because it's so technical and you've got to have such proper tools. But really, to be short about it, there's a number out there that exists. In every ten minutes, millions of computers around the world are trying to guess this number. And that's all they're doing, is trying to guess it. They aren't trying to calculate it. They don't have time for calculating. They're guessing the thousand guesses a minute. However many it is, I don't know the amount. But these computers are sitting there guessing numbers over and over and over every second, five billion, seven hundred and twenty whatever. And whoever guesses the number first, whoever's computer guesses the number first, wins the block and right now gets three and eighth bitcoin.

11:07 In an eighth Yeah time, yeah, every. One to every ten minutes. You used to be fifty, now it's three and eight. But there are so many computers guessing now. I mean, like here, just in Texas, you have Riot Bitcoin. They have the largest bitcoin mining facility in the United States. This thing is gig just football field's worth a mining machine stacked to the twenty foot tall. Now they're building. That's south of College Station where Texas a and employees. Now they're building the world's largest. That's the US's largest. Now they're building the world's largest. In course of cannon. I was down there six months ago to see it. The cooling pond for their water runoff is big enough you can put sailboats in. This thing is gigantic they're making. But most people don't have that many mining machines as Riot does, so they really can't compete with Riot or Marathon Mining or any of these big guys. They just can't compete with them. So what they do is they all get together and they join forces and what's called a mining pool, and maybe a thousand machines will have joined this pool. Maybe I have five and I'm gonna use this mining pool. You could have six. You use the mining pool, and whenever anyone in that mining pool wins the block, everybody shares the revenue. Because one mining machine competing against five million other ones, you really don't have that much of a chance.

12:21 You could, but your chance is a swim. So they all pull together in a mining pool and then they share the proceeds and then they've increase their odds drastically. So what's the reason for that activity? Why does that exist? Well's the social nakamotive believed in proof of work that money has to be established by doing work, and that is doing the work for the bitcoin. So people go what's bitcoin back by is back by thousands of computers doing work. I mean, if you're running a computer that's mining bitcoin and it's costing you seventy thousand dollars to say eighty thousand dollars to mine one bitcoin, well you're not gonna be selling it for a dollar. So that's where the value of bitcoin comes in. That's what bitcoin back is back by proof of work. Now you have things like ethereum, which is proof of steak, and bitcoin is one of the only ones that uses proof of work.

13:11 Is definitely the only one that size that is, it uses proof of work, but proof of work is the only way to do it to me, I mean, it's like if you're a guy working, you know, you appreciate your money a lot more if you're working for it than if it's just given to a lot of people would just get given money. It's like labor, right, It's like labor. In labor, you got to cost, you got to run it, you got definitely have costs, and so you're selling price a bitcoin is going to be determined off that. When bitcoin goes up and they cut in half again in three more years and you get like one and a half instead of three and an eighth or one in I'm not gonna do that math in my head. It's gonna have to be a lot higher than it is now, so you can calculate it out. John McAfee I had talked with him many times before he died. He had calculated out the price of that bitcoin would have to be when it hit when it got to like you're only getting like an eighth of a bitcoin when you're mine.

13:56 You know you can do that. You can figure that out every four years, just cut it down. There's gonna be a point where you know, I'm gonna use a tenth have more around them that a tenth of a bitcoin is gonna have to be, you know, a million dollars or you can't afford to mine it, you know, because you'll be spending that much. All these machines. You're just fighting for an eighth of a bitcoin or tenth of a bitcoin. So a proof of work is what that's causing. That's what Bitcoin's back by is the world's largest mining network on the planet, and the proof of work is what they're all doing trying to guess the number, and they try to do a block every ten minutes. Now people are guessing this number too fast. Let's say the hash rate is how many computers are guessing basically, let's say there's so many computers on there that're guessing the number every five minutes. So that's throwing the bitcoin blockchain off kilter. It has what's been every ten minutes.

14:40 So every two weeks the network will automatically calculate how long it's been taking to answer the question the mathematical problem, and if it's eight minutes, it's gonna make it harder, right, So it brings it back up to every ten minutes. So the network's automatically changing the how hard to question it for the people, for the machines to get bit at ten minutes. I don't know if I explained it good enough. I know what I'm saying sometimes, and sometimes, like Trump to a degree, I weave shit in there that has no romance. It's okay, I'm glad to came. With that term, because that's what I do. Yeah, I think a lot of these concepts are not clearly understood by large amounts of people. I think they hear these terms, and they hear this term in reference to bitcoin, but they don't really understand what's really going on there. I didn't realize that it was basically a kind of a network of computers that are all trying to guess a number that's established by whom is my next question?

15:31 Well, it's about the Bitcoin protocol, I mean the Bitcoin, the network person. This all happens automatically. It's on every computer that's mining bitcoin. Okay, it's a distributed thing, right, the chared across. Here mining bitcoin. You're downloading the bitcoin and every node has it. I have it on four or five computers here at my house. Just backing up to the Bitcoin network. People were worried about Bitcoin getting hacked a lot, rob I hear that a lot. Oh they made up money. Well, it's distributed it right, Yeah. Well yeah, so to get bitcoin to hack the Bitcoin network, you're going to basically have to have more computers. You're going to have fifty one percent of the computers that are mining bitcoin on the network. And if someone's buying that many computers, that many acic miners, not computers, there's these are specific things people are buying. If someone's buying that many miners, everybody is going to know. It's not like you're going to secretly buy enough minors to control fifty one percent of the network, and then you're going to have to start mining with all these you're going to spend a fortune in electricity mining bitcoin, and then when you finally got to the point you've done it, you'd have billions of dollars of bitcoin. So by hacking the bitcoin network, you would take your billions of dollars and make them worthless because once it got hacked, no one would want it. They go, oh, we know this would get hacked, So you would make billions of dollars that you would throw away, So it would be a It would you defeat the purpose of mining you minded to get. You wanted to hack it to get to bitcoin, where your bitcoin's going be worthless if you do, and you're gonna get rid of billions of dollars that you

17:03 just made. Well, the only one that would have a motivation for doing that would be a large country, right like the United States. A large country would have a hard time doing it, but they still would be It's at the point that's not going to happen because the miners still would have to accept the new because basically, by doing fifty one percent you've made a new four okay a bitcoin. You said bitcoin's going along, and you've taken fifty one percent of the powerway, So you've made a fork over here, and in this fork you own a lot of bitcoin you just stole. Well, the miners aren't going to sit back and go, oh the heck with that. They're going to cut off that fork and stay with the old one. So they've got to decide to go with that four I mean, there was a four cores back in twenty seventeen between bitcoin and bitcoin cash cash forked off and they thought they should. The people there thought that that was the better bitcoin, but it lost to regular bitcoin because most of the miners said, no, that's not true.

17:52 We're not going to accept that fort And that's what would happen with bitcoin if a nation state did do it, the miners wouldn't accept it. So it's the odds a bitcoin going to a million or way higher than to going to a zero. At this everybody's waited too long, too big. Even if the US tomorrow, which right now we have going into the government, the most bitcoin pro bitcoin government we've ever had. But even if tomorrow the government said we changed our mind bitcoin's illegal. You're only making it illegal in the US. The rest of the world is still going to be mining it. China found that out the hard way. They made mining illegal. Oh, the mining companies moved to the US. They were there because electricity was cheaper. They all moved to the US. Now guess what, five six years later, China realized that was an idiot move. We controlled half the hash power.

18:37 Now we're illegal again. Oh wow, okay, well, I mean all these countries around the world. I mean, you think about maybe a shift to the future of currency on a global level being based on this kind of a process. But they don't control right. Right, right nobody? Yeah, Bitcoin, it's Bitcoin doesn't care if you're from the US. They don't care. If you're from Africa, they don't care if you're they don't care if you're white. Bitcoin doesn't care anything. It's just doing its thing when it's up to you to get in there and do it and take it. Doesn't that a little bit of a threat to the power of governments on a global scale. Because they want to control the money. Yeah, that's why China got rid of it. You control the money, you control the people. But here in the United States. You have you're familiar this. You have a thing where there's a separation between church and state. I personally think there should be a separation between money and state. But the federal government doesn't need to produce our money. Yeah, before the federal government started producing it, every state produced their own money. I mean, it's not like something that has to happen. I don't think bitcoin would affect the US for a long time. But the US, let's face it, we've been the world currency for one hundred years now.

19:43 We've been fiat money since seventy one. The average life span of a fiat money is fifty years. We've well passed that, and the life span of a world currency is one hundred. We've well passed that. We need to do something pretty quick here. We don't want to lose that, and by getting bitcoin working with US dollars is the best way we can save that. I mean, gold kids don't want gold anymore. I know, peep their gold bugs and silver bugs, but I mean, and gold is what are you un lugged around gold bars with you? You're not getting on an airplane with five gold bars. I can guarantee you that. But you know, I can in Hong Kong. Let's use Hong Kong as an example. When China took over Hong Kong and they didn't take it over, it was given back to them because it was at least by UK. But the people who had gold bars, I guarantee you none of them got on a plane if they were trying to leave with their wealth, if they were holding those gold bars and under the combetitor.

20:32 But if people had bitcoin, all they had to do was remember their key phrase. They could get on an airplane, fly anywhere they want, and when they got there, get on the computer and there's their bitcoin. So now are store or stored on a cold storage drive of sorts? Right? Yeah, but even if you can't, you don't necessarily have to take the cold storage drive, which is what I'm saying. Oh you don't sure, Yeah, but you. Get a mnemonic phrase. Everybody who gets a cold big cooins wallets are made with anomonic phrase that you could fly from Hong Kong to the US, go buy the same wallet you had, closed storage device, entered the demonic phrase, and that's your wallet now destroyed the one before you left. Because you didn't want anyone at the airport knowing you had a wallet and saying, hey, you can't leave in your family can't leave until you give us your password. Yeah, that's a good point.

21:13 Yeah, so you just destroy that, Just memorize twelve words. You can memorize twelve words. Whatever country you get in, you can go buy your wallet and rebuild it with those twelve words. A lot of thoughts been put into this. Do you think that is a possibility that the just to use example of the Federal Reserve here in the United States has a lot of power right now over the Fiat currency and the monetary system. They would basically be losing control unless they got in on it. Right wit a bank, Mellen Camp Bank in New York, But I think it may be the oldest bank in the United States, and it's definitely one of the biggest. They I think they are even no homing thiss. But you know, the Fed's not owned by the US go It's owned by fifteen banks across the world, some number of banks, and I'm wrong, I'm always wrong with my numbers, but I'm close enough that so it's owned by all these banks from across the planet, not buy the US government.

22:00 So I think the Bank, New York Bank, Melancamp New York Bank is owned by is the owner of the FED. They are the only bank in the United States that can hold bitcoin. They are moving into bitcoin. They passed the bill banks could hold bitcoin, so you would be able to walk into your bank or do it online and say, hey, I want to move one thousand dollars into bitcoin, and the bank could handle it for you, and the bank would hold it for you. People are used to being taken care of in their financial as systems by bank. And then Biden vetoed it. It passed the House and passed the Senate, and Biden vetoed it. But then out of the blue, I think it was Genshur Gerry Ginshur at sec allowed even though that the bill didn't pass and banks couldn't hold bitcoin, Bank of New York own Camp all of a sudden got approved by Gerry ginslur it a whole bitcoin. So so that's coming.

22:44 If one bank's going to do it, they're all going to do it. And it's a FED. A bank that owns part of the FED is doing it all. The bank's own part of the fediguard. So you think that the FED would do it on the part of the United States, or you think the FED would hold their own and the United States would hold their own. Bit I think they both would hold their own. We need to shut down, I mean. What we need to do. There's no reason for it anymore, right, Yeah, well. There them there was a reason. Andrew Jackson shut it down. He said that was the most that was the best thing he ever did for his presidency for the world in the United States was shutting down the FED. Then like nineteen eighteen, all these bankers got together and made a bill and got it passed there in Christmas. That recreated the FED. But if people want to find out about the FED, I recommend they read a book, The Creature from Jekyl Island. It's Jackyal Island is where it happened at Jeckel Island, Georgia, and the creature is the FED.

23:31 So it's the FED was created at Jekyl Island, so it's a creature from Jackal Island. It's a great book. It'll tell you so many things that when you get through with it, you go, oh my gosh, I really don't know how this could even exist today, How we could have an entity that is not controlled by the US government running our financial situation that's owned by these banks. I mean, that's yeah. It's an organization that drives inflation deflation of the currency, right, And I'm for sure that's a pretty destructive power that it has. It's a real destructive power we have. You take the US dollar. Their charts that you can look at. This shows the US dollar from like nineteen I'm gonna say nineteen eighteen. I know them off, but I'm gonna say nineteen eighteen the FED was created. If you look at what's happened to the dollar since nineteen eighteen, Oh my gosh, it's just been going off a cliff. But we're still plugging along, loving that FED. And then you hear people go two percent interest, two percent inflation is good. I don't see anything good about any inflation. But why is two percent inflation? So if I keep my money in the bank for twenty years two percent inflation per year, you lost a lot of money. You got to make money just to stay even.

24:36 That's the world. Or more inflation if they print more FI currency, right. And then the chart the government uses for inflation. But if the price is the price of state goes up, too much. If everybody's eating full at Mignon and ploy Mignon goes up to one hundred bucks, Say, the average person's not eating fil a now, so we're gonna start putting in the index. We're taking out to pull a and we're adding hamburger meat. So it I didn't go up as much as the share because they just replaced it. You know, they replaced the thing went up a lot with something that's cheaper. And oh yeah, but now everybody's eating hamburger. No one's eating flat. Right, that's right. Bitcoin flips the coin or no pun intended, but it flips the churn on that and actually is an appreciating asset, not.

25:18 A appreciating appreciating asset. It's a store of value. Some people call it digital gold, I think, and I think that's a bad because gold. You took an ounce of gold and went over the last five hundred years, let's say, or how many years an ounce of gold used to buy a suit of armor. An ounce of gold now buys a super fine minsuit twenty seven hundred ounce. So that's like a hedge against inflation. It always stays the same. It's not gaining, it doesn't really build wealth. It just holds on to wealth exactly. Gold holds onto wealth. And I'm not knocking people who are stacking gold. That's not my goal at all. Gold bitcoiners and gold bugs and silver bugs have a lot in common. I feel, just don't understand bitcoin, so they're going for the next for something they do understand, which is gold and silver. But like I said, it's a great way to hang on to your wealth. The same amount of goal probably buys a house now that it took to buy a house thirty years ago. But where it took ten years ago one hundred bitcoin a house now, it takes like three to buy a house. So that's definitely a big difference in appreciation.

26:20 Yeah, well, let's change gears a little bit and talk about your conference that you're putting on, your bit block Boom conference. It's at bit block boom dot com. Here we pull it up on the screen, so if you're interested in finding out more about it. I mean, I'm going to continue this conversation and dive into issues related to trust around bitcoin, and there's all sorts of derivative issues on that. But I wanted to mention Gary's coin conference that he's been doing. It's been around here when we pull it up on the screen, it's been around for eight years now. Right right here we are the well. First of all, it just make sure it's clear this is a bitcoin conference and you're a bitcoin yeah listening. I talk about bitcoin.

27:00 I don't care. There are twenty thousand cryptocurrencies, maybe more by now. I don't care about any of the nineteen thousand, nine hundred and ninety or twenty thousand cryptocurrencies. I care about bitcoin. You got bitcoin and twenty thousand cryptos, so I care about bitcoins. And my conference is about bitcoin. And at the moment, at eight years, it's the world's longest running bitcoin conference. Sure there were some before me, but they've gone out of business. So as it stands, I have the longest running bitcoin Conference's four days of discussion and events with bitcoin. It's in Dallas, Texas in April. If anyone is interested and they do want to go, use the code Geary give you a discount tickets. Make it easy for you. But here's the thing with the with my conference. Rob is there and this is how it started. There are a lot of people and I'm going to use Joe Blow in South Dakota. Joe Blow in South Dakota got into bitcoin in twenty twelve. He's got a lot of bitcoin because it was cheap to get He could even mine it, probably on his laptom.

27:52 But he knows nobody in South Dakota who has bitcoin like he does to talk to in a manner that's the same relevant. See, they both can relate. If he's got five hundred bitcoin and he's talking to some guy who's trying to buy his first eighth first one hundred dollars worth, they don't have a lot of stuff in common to talk about, nor do they have the history to go over of all the things that happened. Well, he loves coming to my conference every year because all of a sudden he's around all his pier. So most of the people come to our conference or old school bitcoiners. And I've always said in the past, if you weren't in the bitcoin my conference might not be the best conference for you to go to because we were not at the basic instructional level. We were at the higher level. Because of the kind of people we drew. I mean I had more people from the Netherlands here before last than I did from Dallas the same thing Australia. I had twenty five thirty people from Australia the king. It's a worldwide event. But now we decided we need to go down that road and start becoming more basic and educational.

28:47 So we've added like a day full of workshops what is bitcoin? A day fall of workshops what is mining? So people can find out these questions. So bit block boom is evolving. But if you want to go to an event where and no one's trying to sell you coin at the event, there's no ine iner going I got some bitcoin by just what matter of fact, someone comes to me and tells me that I over shout in them because they probably shouldn't even have a ticket to my event. So I check it out immediately. So it's a good safe place. We have Texas Rangers come for security. We don't just use security guys, we use official Texas Rangers. So everybody is feels pretty comfortable and secure. But it's a good place to go and learn about bitcoin, or even if you know everything about bitcoin, it's a good place to go and hang out with your peers. So let's talk now a little bit about trust in bitcoin.

29:29 I think a lot of people are hearing what's going on that it's going to reach this one hundred thousand dollars threshold a bitcoin, and people are hyped and interested in getting into it, but they have this historical memory is that maybe they've heard from a friend that they've lost their bitcoin, or there's just this kind of maybe under the carpet kind of feeling that they can't really trust putting their money into bitcoin. And I guess that raises all sorts of questions around how to do it with this long standings kind of skepticism. And there has been fraudsters in the past, and there is risks, and I think that the industry has been very straightforward about that to some degree, and it's been obvious based on things that have happened in the news that people have heard about that have maybe soured them a little bit to trusting this with their hard earned money right as they think.

30:18 To the future. And so, what do you think that people need to be thinking about with bitcoin here that will help them build more of a maybe short to long term kind of feeling of trust around it. Well, you're correct, it's a lot of stuff has happened in bitcoin. But let me also state that bitcoin itself, the bitcoin network, the bitcoin system, it's never been hacked, and no bitcoin's ever been stolen from that. Bitcoin has been stolen from people after they took possession of it, not from the network. So and here's what typically happened. For instance, a lot of people buy bitcoin at coin base and they leave it on that exchange at Coinbase, and they don't take self custody of it because they for some reason think that exchange change to the bank with FDIC. It's not only banks have FDIC, not bitcoin exchange.

31:05 So right now, at some point in time, I was talking to someone yesterday has ad a bitcoin conference and we were talking about Coinbase was hacked at a time, and they didn't get any bitcoin from him, but they got a lot of users information, is what I was told. Like I said, I haven't investigated this personally. So what they're doing now is they're calling people because they have people's information. They know these people have a coin based account, they know their name, and they have their contact information. Evidently they have their phone number, and they call them up and go, Hi, we're with Coinbase. We have a possible hack going on and we need to help you secure your bitcoin and they go, oh my gosh, thank you, and they go, we need to confirm that you are who we think you are. Please give us your password and use your name, and they do it, and then they just log into account and steal their bitcoin, right, and that's a big thing right now. People usually give up the information. I was at the seven to eleven here and I've known him forever. He's like, he gives me free coffee in the mornings because I will answers bitcoin questions. One day I came in said, oh, my gosh, coin Base has stolen my wife's bitcoin. I said what, Yeah, she went to her account and there's no bitcoin in there.

32:06 She's stolen it. They even called her. When they said they called her, I said yeah, I said, no, I have a feeling that some hackers called your wife and that she may have given them the username. Oh no, she'd never I said, well, you might want to go home and check on that. Next day, coffee goes, oh my god, Gar, you're right. Someone called saying they were coin Base and they needed her account number and password, and she gave it to him and said, yeah, I had a feeling that was what had happened. So yeah, people don't realize here's the deal in a nutshell with bitcoin, I mean, unless you want to leave it on a reserve someplace. But for the most part, you're your own bank. I mean, you are your bank. You don't have a bank taking care of you, because as I said, at the moment, it's illegal if a bank's the whole bitcoin except for the one bank. So you have you are a bank. Now being a bank is great power. I mean it's great power. Oh my gosh, why do you think there's a bank on every corner. I mean, in a bank is a great power. You can basically print money.

32:56 But now you're a bank. You got to realize with great power or comes great responsibility, whether you want to quote Voltaire or Uncle Ben. Having great powers a great responsibility, and most people are not prepared for that responsibility, nor do they want to take the responsibility. So if you have you've got a cold card, thing cold, you taken it, I think. And another thing people do is they go to for instance, you could go to the treasure where you got yours, and you could buy it and let's say it's one hundred dollars at whatever the prices. I don't know, nor do I care. But then they go to Amazon and they say, oh, this guy's selling treasures for twenty five dollars, I'll buy one from him. For the guy on Amazon selling for twenty five dollars, fifty dollars, one hundred dollars whatever, there's a chance I'm not knocking anyone there. But there's a chance they already opened the package and got modified. Yeah, modified it so that when you put your bitcoin on it, they can take it off as fast as you put it on. So if you do buy a wallet, you have to buy it from the company that made it. You can't be buying it from And then I have another friend Rob, this is Coinbase was getting sued by the sec that was happening.

34:00 So I would contact friends I knew that I had orange piled or talked into bitcoin to tell him, hey, do you still have your bitcoin on Coinbase And they go yes, and you need to get it off. You don't want that lawsuit to go through and then you lose access to your bitcoin because they've been shut down. Had a friend he bought I talked him into buying when it was six thousand, he bought three thousand. He had half a bitcoin it's fifty thousand dollars right now. He bought his wallet. He had his son come over and help him do it. When you buy your wallet, it makes you write down all the passwords, phrases, and it'll ask you what was word number eight, what was word number two? What was word it was to make sure you've written all this stuff down. So he put his half bitcoin in there, wrote all his words down, wrote down his user name, wrote down his password. Done, said when my son helping me, it wasn't easy. Then he called me a month ago and goes, the hell would that treasure? They won't even give me my password?

34:46 And I said, Rob, they don't have your password. That's why he can't give it to you. And goes, well, i've lost my piece of paper. I'm going you lost your piece of paper that was pretty important to keep. Yeah, I know, I just can't remember where I put it at. So hopefully he finds it someday. But if he doesn't, he's lost fifty thousand dollars, which could be one hundred thousand dollars by this time next year. It's a responsibility, that's what I'm saying. Most people are not prepared for the responsibility. But that's what it is. But now we have ETFs still not as good as owning bitcoin. Holding the asset itself, that's what you really want to do. But you have ets, you have ways to get into bitcoin without having to absorb as much responsibility. But the more responsibility you take, the better off you're going to be long term my opinion. So that's a bitcoin has never been hacked. It's safe. It's the sloppiness of the people who buy the bitcoin is the point I'm trying to make that has done well.

35:31 It's also they're probably not educated about how it all works, right, Yeah, yeah, I think that's been my experience. For sure. It's worth your time. This is something that's worth your time learning. I mean, people spend more time figuring out how to set up their podcast studio than they do trying to figure out how to secure their bitcoin. I mean for real, and they just buy it and leave it. Okay, I bought it, it's sitting there. Yeah, it's not ensure, dude, it's one hacks into that. No matter what it is, You've lost bitcoin and they're gonna go, sorry, we got hacked and you lost your bitcoin. It's happened. You know, it's not like it hasn't happened. It's happened. I don't know how times it's going to happen for people that the people who had it happened to them though, But then time goes by, and that's what happened. Time goes by, new people get in and they all get taken advantage of. So let's play out a scenario. Person loads one of these apps. Right, they're able to go in and invest a thousand dollars or whatever, and they get a fraction of a bitcoin, Right, they get a point zero one or they get point one or whatever that number is that they invested in, and it's held in a exchange. Right, that gives you the ability to buy and and you want to export it out of there into cold storage like a treasor what is that typical process that enables that to happen. So when you buy it, you don't necessarily have to do a bunch of setup before you export it.

36:42 That the exchange has makes your wallet automatically and basically it's really simple. Your treasure you said, or whatever want you whatever you use to put it in will have an address, a public address. Every wallet has a public address and a private key. Public address is like your email address. I would send you an email Rob Greenley at gmail dot com. That's your public address. Your password is what you enter to read all your email. You don't want anyone having that. As long as you don't give anyone that, you're fine. But you would just go into your wallet, get that public address, copy it, go over to the exchange, hit send a bitcoin, put in the address, say send all. Usually tell you how much you one do, say send all and send it and that's it. But you do want to make sure you know, just as a tip to people, when you paste that in there, when you take that out of your wallet, that address and you paste it into the exchange, at least look at the first four letters in the last four letters on your wallet and make sure you copy the whole thing. Look at what you just paste it in.

37:37 If it starts with B one two five, make sure that your address is B one two five on the thing. So if you check the first four and the last four, it's like ninety nine point nine percent the rest in the middle of going to be there. You just want to make sure you don't send it to a wallet that is missing a number and then then maybe it's flying out there in the world forever. We were talking about my friend who lost half a bitcoins. Almost four million bitcoin they say are lost, gone forever. So while we have twenty one million bitcoin were created, four MILLIONI were lost for it by people sending it to wrong wallets. Someone threw away a laptop one time that had four thousand bitcoin on it and they threw away and it's in a landfill somewhere. Things like that happen all the time, So that's almoso. Really, if you're trying to figure out how rare bitcoin is that there's only twenty one million, really there's only seventeen, right, And the guy who invented bitcoins, that Toshi Nakamoto, he has a million to he mined.

38:23 He didn't even give it to himself. He minded it just like you and I would. No one even knows if he's alive anymore because it's never been touched the mood. So really, what's different about a cold storage device like a little USB stick is what it's like. What's the difference between that and a regular USB stick. I think it's just made more user friendly. For the most part. You could put it on a USB stick. There's a thing called an open dime, which is basically a USB stick. If I want to give someone some bitcoin. I did something with someone and I owed at fifteen hundred dollars and they said, hey, paimium vic sure and they don't have they don't even have a wallet put bigoin on. So I just put it on this open dime, which is an upgraded USB stick, and I just handled him the stick. I can know it's five movies. You say, here's the credit stick. That's what a wallet basically is.

39:03 But you have wallets on exchanges. Then you have wallets people put on their phone. Those are still hot wallet, and then you have coal wallets which have to be plugged into the internet because your keys are on the wallet, which is a whole separated device. You know it's not on the net. No one's going to break into your wallet because not on the net hook to the internet. So you're that's your top security. Then what a lot of people doing if you're buying a lot of bigcoin. Let's say you were buying a million dollars worth of a big cooin. Not a lot of people go buy a million dollars. But if you were, You're really not going on to put it on a little thumb drive. You have it around where you could lose it or someone could pick it up, So you'd go to a company like our top sponsor Unchained. Unchained creates wallets where you have to have three separate wallets to get into the main wallet, and so you have two and they have one.

39:47 So if you lost one of your wallets or one of your wallets broken, they can help you out, but they can't do anything without at least one of your two, so your bitcoin safe. You know. So a lot of people with high wealth would rather use a two out of three multi sig. It's called you have to have two signatures out of three possible signatures to get into any bitcoin, and then it'll have safety precautions like you can set it up and go. I never want anyone to be able to pull more than five percent out of this at a time. So if someone does, by some chance, maybe you got a POS kid and he knows where you would hide that, and he goes in there and tries to hijack your bitcoin because he doesn't care about his parents, because he's a POS. You can't take more than five percent plus. You can set it up where the video camera comes on and it gives you a script and you have to go, Hi, I'm Gary Lelon, I'm moving five percent of my bitcoin to this address and say okay, and then they physically review that video. So there are ways to make sure you're secure.

40:36 Just most people don't want to do, as I said earlier, don't want to do the work, and you have to do the work. Do you see that that process getting more standardized and streamlined. Yeah, and I do. They're more well understood. There are quite there are more companies every day coming, not every day, but every year more companies start offering a multi sig service. You could use River, you can use our sponsor Unchained, you can use one Bitcoin. I mean there's several of them to choose from that. Do that have you know the two out of three? And what I recommend people do if they want to explore bitcoin. And let's say you're not in a situation where you could throw a thousand dollars or five thousand dollars or the million we were talking about, go to some place like Unchained or Swan or River, one of the three, and you can set up dollar cost averaging DCA.

41:22 Yeah, that's how I bought into it, was just buying one hundred dollars a week for. Yeah, that's a thing. That's not a real doing thing. Yeah, you knowing you could do is what it was ten dollars a week or ten dollars a month, but set up something just like you did. So you're buying it automatically. So what happens is you get it when it's high, you get it when it's low, and hopefully you're averaging out in the middle, but you're acquiring bitcoin and before you know it. Here's what really happens, though, Rob with people who dollar cost average, and I can tell you this from experience, when your dollar cost average for some place, most of those places will offer you an optional email, monthly email, weekly email. As ascribing you want to accept that and sign up for that, you just got to click a button and they'll send you emails and there'll be simple emails and it'll give you information. Almost everybody I have signed up to do dollar cost averaging or talked into it, inevidently, after two or three months they've been getting these emails, they got some skin in the game.

42:10 And I talked about how important that was already And the next thing I know, they're calling me up, going, hey, Gary, thanks for tell me that that I just bought ten thousand dollars worth of bitcoin. I understand it now. Or I just bought one hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin. I understand it now. So by dollar cost averaging, you have some skin in the game on a reoccurring basis. That's the thing, a reoccurring basis, and you force yourself find out about bitcoin. Another friend I had with a friend that bought the three thousand dollars worth of bitcoin we talked about earlier. He bought that in twenty seventeen. I called him in twenty twenty when bitcoin was going to sixty nine thousand and said, have you looked at that bitcoin yet? I was, well, I haven't looked at it since twenty seventeen. So he had not bought anymore, which he probably would have if he just saw what was happening. And he said, oh gosh, it's right going through the roof. And so I said, you need to start dollar cost averaging, which he did, started buying maybe fifty dollars a week, and he called me two months later said I just bought ten thousand dollars because if he'd have been dollar cost averaging to begin with, though, he'd about ten thousand dollars, you know, under ten thousand bitcoin, right, yeah, right, So that was there. Weren't a lot of places offering that service back then. So that's the best thing to do.

43:10 And I don't care where you do it at, but you start dollar costs. And I tell people who have a lot of wealth, Let's say you got your old boomer like me, and you've been working your whole life and contributing and your company's been matching or whatever, and you got let's say you got ten million dollars in there. Let's say you're really doing good. When you wake up in the morning and you look at your portfolio, do you really go into a state of shock if it's down one percent? Do you like pee in your pants and go, oh my god, it's down one percent today? What am I going to do? No, you don't even think about it. You don't even so why not take one percent and throw it into half a percent. I mean, it's not like you're going to miss it, but you might find that it doubles in a couple of years. Which it would more than double a rate it's been going in a couple of years. When you said the beginning of the year here, I think it was like twenty thousand dollars and now we're in a hundred. That's five five times. You know, I really only tell people about bitcoin because I really just I'm not selling them any bitcoin, and I'm not even giving out my referralings, which I have referral links, but I haven't given those out for the exchanges and stuff. I just want people to take advantage of this. This is the first thing ever since our grandparents were alive, that Joe Blow got to front run before the corporation's front running it. Usually the banks and corporations invest they front run it and after they getting the big money coming in, then peons, I guess, get to take advantage of it. But all the big money was made by a corporation bank. This is the first thing ever that the peons got to do first, you know.

44:25 Yeah. One big aspect of bitcoin that I don't know that a lot of people have deep understanding of is the derivative currency that exists around bitcoin called a satoshi, and that one bitcoin is really divisible by Satoshi's right, So. Right, Yoshi is really a bit. I think that's the official name of a Satoshi, a bit, so it's the smallest denomination of bitcoin there is, but people renamed it satoshi after the inventor of bitcoin, Nakamota Satoci. So I think officially it's a bit, but everybody calls it a satoshi, and that's pretty much the name everybody uses now is Aisatoshi. Yeah, if you can put your kind of futures hat on a little bit here and think about the trajectory of this, how important do you think that satoshi is going to become as part of the kind of the global exchange.

45:11 Well, there will be a point in time that it would definitely be a penny for satoshi, and people can do the math figured it out, so that means a bitcoin is going to be a million dollars. I guess if it gets to be worth a pain, and there'll be a point in time where it's worth a dollar, So I guess that's when it gets to be one hundred million dollars for a bitcoin, which will happen, and you can't while you can't add more bitcoin, you can't create more bitcoin. There's twenty one million. That's it. That's all that's ever going to be. And as I said, seventeen million available. You can add more decimal spots. So if a satoshi got to a dollar, you know, somebody who's really in a country where a dollar might be your day's pay, is it going to have hard time buying satoshi. So then it would adapt and they would add Bitcoin Core would add because it'd have to be approved by all the miners accepted it, which it would be.

45:53 They'd add more decimal coins. So instead of being one hundred million satoshi's in a bitcoin, there may be a billion satoshi's in a bitcoin. Yeah, still only twenty one million bitcoin, but it can be divisible by more. Is more divisible, right, and that would make it more flexible around various transactions too, right, because it's a smaller amount per satoshi. Right. Yeah, it's like what the. Fion currency has been doing forever, where we have a dollar, a paper dollar, and then we have quarters, nickels, dimes, and pennies. Right, So exactly it's the same kind of approach I would think, right, yeah. Yeah, for sure, except then the real dollar they're taking away, pennies they're going those pennies have no value anymore. We need to take those off the market, beca. People don't want to mess with him anymore where we're talking about bitcoin adding more than that's on pacees, so we can keep pennies.

46:35 Yeah, or it's even worse than that that they use metals to make those pennies that used to be out made out of copper, and now they're deluding that to be less copper in them. So you're not actually basing that currency on any kind of a backing of sorts. Right, Yeah, And then the constitution says that all currency has to be backed by silver and goal, but is this so actually the currency we uses illegal. Nixon in nineteen seventy one took us off the gold standard, and when he did it, he announced that it's a temporary measure. And I've watched interviews from the people involved with that who said, oh, we thought everybody was going to move crazy, that this was going to cause riots, and no one said a word. There was no slack from the general public. So guess what here it is what fifty years later and it's still temporarily not back by So yeah, now ounce of gold is what you know? You used to have silver dollars. They were made out of silver, so a dollar was evidently worth an ounce of silver. Now ounce of silver's worth thirty dollars. It's like, you know, if you go to the bank to get cash and you get ten thousand dollars out, they have to report it.

47:31 But really, if you take inflation, that would be equivalent to when they made that law, Like taking a thousand dollars out the bank, you need to really raise it up to a one hundred thousand dollars if they want to keep the same purchasing power that's they're reporting. Yeah. Yeah, So you layer on top of this kind of the changing impact of a potential of mass adoption of such a revolutionary kind of approach to currency and exchange of value in the marketplace today for humans, right, And how do you think that's going to impact the wealth of an average citizen in the world and the economies and the financial system as you look to the future, is there going to be like a really rough transition between fiat and these digital currencies like bitcoin or are they going to or what we're going to see is like an intermediary which would be like a US digital currency or a.

48:18 Let's hope we don't have a US digital currency. Trump has said that he will never allow that under his presidency, that continues past his presidency with whoever Republican or Democrat, because for instance, in China, they have China Chinese digital currency. When if you're doing something that they don't agree with, you're posting things against the country, they just can fuck up your account and you can't get that where at least ways of paper dollars, you could have paper dollars and you can still spend your money. You know, it really does I think control the population too much, having that much control over money. But they'll never state that what it can do. But that's what it could do to me. But I think, rob we're getting ready to see the well, no, this isn't a think. We're in the process of seeing the biggest wealth transfer that has ever happened. While the boomers are dying eventually, gradually slow.

49:00 I'm seventy when I got twenty years left. If I'm lucky, probably if I made it one hundred, I wouldn't even care about that last ten. But all the boomers are dying, and again it's a fact boomers grew up and the best financial conditions the gut world has ever had. I think, you know, an employment was low, everything was just great. Most of them have, not most of them, but a large percentage compared to other age groups, millennials, Generation X or whatever. There's a lot of money in the bank that these boomers own. And as these boomers die and their kids get this money, well, they aren't going to want to keep this stuff. The boomers have got their money in, they're going to move it all into cryptocurrencies because they understand it. Boomers might not understand it, but the younger generations do, and they're going to put it into there. They probably aren't going to be buying gold because they don't want to lug that stuff around that's their granddaddy's money. But they're going to put it into money that they understand. And so we're gonna see that shift right there. Even if boomers don't get into it, all their money is going to go into it, sooner or later. It's just going to be their kids or grandkids that are putting it into it. So you know, when you've got bitcoin, here's the deal. You got a dollar, I'll give you kind of a scenario here you have the US dollar. Then you have sites like PayPal that's a layer over the dollar. That's a layer. You got base layers a dollar, you PayPal, all these things. Then you have another layer credit cards and all these companies.

50:22 That's another layer. Then you have another layer that's ets and stocks and stuff. So you have all these layers that are based off of, you know, using the US dollar, which is the world currency, is their base layer that's being built right now. You have bitcoin, Then you have exchanges, then you have bitcoin et s, and then you have companies that will let you store your bitcoin there and they'll give you a card, credit card, go buy something and you use the credit card behind the scenes that converts your bitcoin the dollars and pays them. So all these layers are being built. This is a big thing. This isn't like people A lot of people understand bitcoin thinks it's just some guys in the basement that doesn't be going what's into the joe. This is a major industry. And so that's why I say the odds have been going to zero? Are the odds have been going to a million or way more than going to zero. Now there's too many big corporations and companies and too many people that have it for that to happen.

51:13 So, speaking of boomers, that is a generation that's approaching retirement right. And I've also seen a lot of statistics that have pointed to the fact that a lot of boomers haven't really adequately prepared for retirement and having enough money in their iras or their investments. And it is bitcoin a potential solution to this retirement dilemma? And is it too late to get in? It's not too late to get in. People are scared of that. Let's put it this way. It's one hundred thousand dollars. But you know, the people who bought it a dollar said I was late. I could have got it in a nickel. People bought it one hundred dollars. I said, no, I'm late. I could have got it at a dollar. People buy it a thousand dollars, said I was late. I could have got into a hundred People ten thousand said that, And the people at one hundred thousand will say that no one. I don't believe anyone in the history of bitcoin has bought bitcoin and said, oh my gosh, this is the best time ever. I am so smart, I got it, except for the people who are mining it when it was a penny and they didn't know if it would even have a value. Ever, they were just geeks that were just doing it because it was it could be done. So no one has ever bought bitcoin thinking it is the best time, but everybody has thought they were related to the game. Who's ever bought bitcoin? And only like three percent maybe of the planet even has any bitcoin. So if only three percent of the planet, I truly believe and I may be dead before this happens because I said, I'm getting old, but I believe that if you bought bitcoin still at one hundred thousand dollars ten years from now, your grandkids

52:46 will go granddaddy, how did you know to buy that bitcoin? Because we're all like getting our colleges paid for and our house is paid for and stuff. How did you know that? And that's what's going to happen even at one hundred thousand dollars because I said, only three percent of the population has n. Yeah, so how do you think that this is going to go? I mean, how are more people going to be able to participate in this? Because if we're transitioning over to having an economy that's based on really transactions related to bitcoin, then we're gonna need to have everybody involved. Right, Well, everybody will get involved sooner or later, because everybody gets the price they deserve. Is the same if you don't want to take the time, if you want to be the little boy who cried cheap, keep missing it, that that's fine, but you're gonna get a worse price.

53:31 Like I said, it certainly is not expensive to buy bitcoin. I mean, yeah, a whole big coin one hundred thousand dollars, not a lot of people for that. But if by five dollars worth of bitcoin it's not expensive to buy bigcoin, you will buy it sooner or later. But yeah, it's just cording to whether you how much you want to get for your money. Right, And that's kind of part of my bigger question is that as we look to the future now, granted, boomers have a shorter life expectancy than like maybe a Gen Z or somebody like that, or a Gen X or any of those folks have much more time ahead of them. But do you think is increasingly going to be important for participation in the economy to have everybody have a piece of bitcoin, and how much do you think they should own today or in the next year to make sure that they're participating in this anti inflationary medium.

54:25 Well, it used to be that everybody's goal was to get twenty one bitcoins. That was the goal. Because you had twenty one only a million people could have twenty one bitcoin. So that used to be the goal, and then that got hard to do for so for some reason, right, I think the number was twelve point nine. I don't know where and how that came from, but that was the number everyone's banding around. Now it's one. Your goal is to try to get to one bitcoin. But a lot of people are saying your goal is to get to point one bitcoin. So we're starting to see that come up. That point one bitcoin can make years your retirement, whether you retire or not, that you could retire in ten years on point one bitcoin. The problem is, though, is people confuse it with a stock and it go oh, I'm gonna buy this, and I'm gonna sell it when it hits one hundred and rebuy it and sell it and rebuy it. Well, first of all, it's a twenty four hour a day, seven day a week market. It's not like a stock market opens up at nine thirty and closes at four or whatever. This is twenty four hours, seven days a week. And then if you take every year for bitcoin, and as I keep saying, my numbers will be wrong, but it's something like there are twenty days out of the year that bitcoin makes fifty percent of its growth, or maybe even a higher percentage than that. Like, so if you're not in on those days, you're not gonna make the money you should make. So really, I'm not a straider. I don't buy and sell bitcoin and try to I'm an investor. I buy it for the long hunt, and I'm seventy. I bought bitcoin yesterday. I've

55:57 been buying it since twenty seventeen, and I bought some yes day because I wanted to buy some at ninety thousand, I realized I hadn't bought any ninety thousand. I will always buy it the high personally, because I know it's going to go higher. So there's no point in time I'm going to go it's too high. I can't buy it anymore. It's I'm always going to buy bitcoin because it's always going to go higher. It'll go higher until I'm dead, and then it'll continue going higher and I won't care about it anymore. So was there any point or what would trigger you to sell some of your bitcoin? Well, that's a good question. I was talking to someone the other day who has been in bitcoin gosh since it was probably five dollars, so we can relatively say they have a lot of bitcoin. There's an upside.

56:37 Yeah, and they have sold none. I've never sold any. I've only acquired. I'm fortunate. I'm in the business, or have been in the business where I made enough money to live off of and I didn't need the bitcoin, and I could take my excess and by bitcoin. So that's very fortunate. Which she's been very fortunate. And we were talking this. I had never heard this. This actually made me leaft. She goes, Gary, I am sick of being bitcoin poor. So because she's got millions of dollars worth of bitcoin, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it was twenty million dollars worth of bitcoin as long as she's been in it, But she doesn't have any money except for what she makes it work because she doesn't want it to says every time I tell some people I'm going to sell it. They go, no, you can't sell it, you can't sell it. But you know, really, I'm waiting to see her again because I think I came up with a solution for her. She's at the point now she has so much bitcoin she could pull out five percent a year. So she's gonna pull out a million dollars a year. I'm just guessing in numbers here, I'm not doing the math, but her bitcoin is gonna go up fifty percent a year, so pulling out five percent a year, she could never run out of money.

57:41 I mean literally, she could never run out of bitcoin. I mean literally, because she's going to you know, it's going up at a much higher rate than she's pulling out. So let's say she pulled out a million this year, Bitcoin double again. Next year she brought up five percent. She's pulling out two percent too. May So I think that's if you're doing a long term, you'll want to save it. You want to buy as much as you can and save it as long as you can. But then there'd be a point where you go, Okay, I'm ready to start living, I'm ready to start traveling. Maybe you want to be able to take your family to Europe for a week and pay for everybody's flights at hotel rooms once a year. Maybe you want to build these memories. You're certainly still at that point going to leave your kids plenty of bitcoin, plus they'll have all these great memories because really, you know, yeah, I feel like I have a long time to go, but I'll probably start doing a strategy like that soon where I can I live fine now, I have a final life, but yeah, I'm not flying my whole family to Europe for two weeks at a moment. I still fly regular class, not even first class. I believe that you need to.

58:41 If you're a young person, you need to quit going out spending money on liquor or pot or e cigarettes, our stupid stuff, going to concerts. You need to for the next If you're twenty five years old, you need the next for the next ten years, save every penny you can save and and just buy bitcoin with it. If you do that for ten years, quit peeing away your money. And that's what you do when you go out drinking, You're peeing away your money. Literally, you need to quit peeing away your money and put it into bitcoin, something that's gonna grow and you're not gonna miss it. And yeah, maybe you can't fly to a wedding and Denver for your buddy that was like just a buddy, not your best friend. Maybe you can't do somethings. Maybe you can't buy two hundred dollars pair of jeans. Maybe you can't buy a new car every year. Hey, I can afford any car I want. I mean, I literally can afford any car I want to buy. And I'm driving like a fifteen year old Mercedes. And that why because I'd rather put my money in the bitcoin that car.

59:38 That's fine. I don't need I don't need to show off to anybody. You don't need to. You don't need to buy a Rolex watch, buy more bitcoin with it, buy more bitcoin with it. In ten years, with it, you can buy the presidential Rolex instead of the starting Rolex. That's what I try to tell people. Quit pissing your money away and just for ten years, put it in the bitcoin, and your life will change drastically. So how do you think this is going to impact value in the market? Right? So as you think about so, let's say I own one bitcoin, It's ten years from now, it's worth a million dollars or yeah, I mean that's a possibility that it could be. And how does that cause the world to maintain I guess value? Right, So if you think about do you think that'll create a world where the cost of buy things will escalate?

1:00:29 Right? So instead of like today being able to buy a car for fifty thousand US dollars as well as fifty thousand dollars worth of bitcoin, do you think that having all this wealth and abundance in bitcoin will inflate the market and then actually be reduce the buying power of those that convert. Yeah, I don't really see that happening as it could be. But I see more as bitcoin as not creating more wealth, it's redistributing the wealth for morere it's at now, That's what I saw, So that's in my picture is Okay, there's still all this money out there basically same about but now it's gone into the hands of people who would have never had it before. And that's what I got through earlier. Common Joe's got to front run this, not corporations to just make it so if this bitcoin had been known by all the corporations for it's just like a stop using this example, as a stock, would we be worried about, Oh, they this new stock came out and they all made all the money off of it.

1:01:27 So I'm gonna have a lot of inflation because these banks made all these money. So I don't see that. Like I said, that's the thing. Is this the first time we've had a chance to be the victors to take advantage of something. So so I don't see it happening that way, which I guess it could, but I haven't visioned that. Yeah, So if there's a chunk of the population, let's say a third of the whole world population never gets connected to bitcoin or Satoshi's or anything things like that, is that a catastrophic outcome for a big chunk of the world as we move into the future here. No, because I still think they will get involved because we'll add more zeros and make it cheaper for them to get involved. So so Bitcoin will pretty much, I think, always be affordable to get into. It's just the amount you're getting is not as much, and it's going to take more time, and there will be a point, let's face, there'll be a point that it's going to quit going up four hundred percent a year the higher the number is, the higher the number it is, the less volatility there is when it gets.

1:02:27 With starks too. Starks have that dynamic to them too. So yeah, when it gets to a million dollars, it's not gonna be near as volatile as it was when it was one hundred and Actually now you have, now that you have the ets s and stuff, they're not like in these corporations buying these banks. They're not like trading. They're investing. Retirement fund goes into our state. Right now, the state of Texas is talking about buying a strategic reserve. Pennsylvania's putting together a program for street, Wyoming's putting together. I was talking to the guy yesterday who did all the writing for the putting this strategic reserve for Wyoming. They want to be the first state to have the reserve, to have a state reserve. Texas is the same thing.

1:03:09 They want to be the first state. This is gonna happen. These states are fighting to be the first one to have a strategic reserve. When he gets those people aren't selling, they aren't buying bitcoin to trade. So as all that bitcoin gets with these entities, the amount of ups and downs and ups and downs is gonna drop. The volatility is gonna drop drastically. So that's why people need to get in now. Volatility is a good thing. People to volna. Yeah, it is volatile. That's why everybody's making so much money. It wasn't volna. Everybody went me getting rich off of right could. But so volatility to me is a good thing. Now, are you familiar with micro strategies? I am? I am? You know mstr someone if someone has money, yeah, because one thing that does happen, rob If you've got all this money in retirement you're a boomer, and you pull it out and cash it out, you're paying capital game, long term capital gains, so you're taking a hit. So you're taking a hit to pull it out and put it in a bitcoin. But right right off the bat, you're in a hole. If you paid the capital gains, you could put your bitcoin into micro strategies. For instance, micro Strategy owns three hundred and twenty thousand bitcoin. Their a whole purpose of being a corporation just about is to buy and hold bitcoin. They're never selling their bitcoin.

1:04:22 They just buy bitcoin is all they do. That stock is going up like no tomorrow. I mean, it's already had a ten for one split, it'll probably have another ten for one split. So I recommend people look at that. And let me do say this. I'm not a financial advisor. I'm just telling people things that I look at. Make your own, but I'm not telling you anything. I'm telling you what I know of the past, what I think about the future, and you can use that information just to educate yourself and go do whatever you want to. But micro strategies, I think is an excellent way, or even an ETF. You got to get some skin in the game, you really do. I've heard some people say that maybe a good way of taking out your value out of bitcoin would be to take a loan against it. Would you advise against them?

1:05:06 I've done that. And here's the thing about taking a loan against your bitcoin that you have to be concerned about. Number One, you're putting your bitcoin up as collateral. Right, Let's say you want one hundred thousand dollars you're going to put up, They're probably going to make you put up three hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin, maybe four hundred thousand dollars worth of bitcoin to get that hundred thousand, because if bitcoin does go for a drop and a bear market, you'll have a call. They want to be covered on that. But it could to a point in time I did it. Bitcoin was forty thousand, and I thought it was going to continue going up. I said, okay, it's a great time, and no it didn't. The bottom dropped out of it. So all my extra reserves I had weren't enough. Luckily, I had enough bitcoin that when they called me and said, hey, you don't have enough bitcoin in here, you need to add more, I was able to add it. If not, I lost all my bitcoin.

1:05:55 So people need to make sure they're aware of that. While bitcoin seems to always be on it upward trajectory does have bear markets. There are bear and bull markets every four years. There's a cycle, and you can look at this. All you have to do is look at the long term chart on it and you can see it and you can see. We're at the beginning of the bull run. So you need you just need to be aware of that. And another thing you have to consider is someone else is holding your bitcoin and we've alwa and that is the most valuable asset on the planet. It's only twenty one million. Nothing is as limited as that. Gold is not that limited. Guess what when gold goes at the five thousand an ounce, I guarantee you they'll be getting more than gold then they could because they can't afford to mind this particular goal at two thousand ounces, but they can afford it at five thousand dollars an ounce. So gold more expensive, gold gets some more gold it comes on the market, but bitcoin doesn't matter what happens. No more's coming on the market. It's it's right, you know, cutting stone, so you can do that. It's just like I said, you need to just be safe. Two things. Number one, you got to have enough bitcoin for the calls in case the drops. The number two you got to realize you're giving someone else your bitcoin and they have control your bitcoin, not you.

1:07:05 Yeah, so all you have to do is look at the chart. I've got the chart up on the screen here and you can see what I'm talking about or what we're talking about here. The volatility is very significant. This goes all the way back to twenty eleven. Well, look, Joe, but go to twenty eleven. Push you back in twenty eleven for me. Yeah, is that eleven? Since yeah, yeah, okay, now come out here to twenty seventeen. Put it on twenty seventeen. That's what I right here. Okay, this is twenty seventeen you're looking at. Now. This is the year that on Thanksgiving it was seven thousand dollars. Christmas Day it was nineteen thousand dollars, and it seemed like the end of the world when that drop happened.

1:07:48 Oh my gosh, it was the biggest thing going. It was as big as this candle here for today, the one all the way to the right at the time. But now look at that candle. We're dropped from twenty down. You can't even tell. It's nothing right, it's gone. Yeah, it's a blimp on the thing. And it went that year from seven thousand Thanksgiving to nineteen thousand my Christmas and then dropped to three thousand dollars. That's the and it's a blip. That's the low point right there. Yeah, thirty two hundred dollars was the what was the low point after being at seventeen thousand? He were And actually that's this particular change. I think most people would agree it hit nineteen thousand into high.

1:08:30 Yeah. So, like I said, that's just a but and I know how many people sold their stuff at that and well, actually Todd Cochran sawd his at twenty thousand dollars and he prope We talked about that online on the show, I believe. So I don't think that's the secret. You might check with him. You might need to cut that out. I don't want to make them look bad, that's okay. But he said it online, so I feel like it he did. Did he said it to me before? And then also twenty twenty, it looks like it was at like ten thousand, a little over ten thousand, and then immediately it shot up to what the piece sixty nine sixty thousand, Yeah, you know, in one year. I remember that. Yeah, that was quite an exciting year. Actually, that was an exciting year. And so when it jumps, it really does when it crashes. But one thing you can see, though, if you look at this chart, that the crashes every time every four year cycle are not as high. While we did have it go from twenty thousand or nineteen thousand, whatever it said seventeen to three thirty two that was whatever percent, that was seventy percent or whatever. The next time, maybe it went down sixty percent.

1:09:39 A stat that I saw this week that I did not know is that whatever the price a bitcoin was for bitcoin, always the end of the happening, first of all, is always on the presidential election year. First of all, so every having ends in a new one starts where the price of the amount of bitcoin you're rewarded from minus cutsinat is election year. So first, well, so every four years there's an election year, and whatever the price of bitcoin was when the president was elected, bitcoin has never gone below that again. Right, So if. Bitcoin was eighty thousand dollars, I don't even know what the price was when. Or let's go back further, when Biden was elected, if it was like thirty thousand dollars, it never dropped below that. Again. If when Obama was elected it was twenty thousand dollars, it never dropped below that. Again.

1:10:27 Now we're probably talking I'm going to guess seventy five thousand dollars when Trump was elected, So we can pretty much feel it past history continues, it shouldn't drop below that again. So, yeah, I just heard this. Yeah, I didn't know that's that. Yeah, And I think if you look at the chart, I think it was it rate here at the lowest point, was at the high point back in twenty twenty seventeen, so you could say it doesn't drop below the last high right back in the past, and then ever since then, and it's been very volatile, but it's been steadily going up, right, Yeah. And like I said, the higher it gets, the less volatility that's going to be. It's just a numbers thing.

1:11:09 It's like some people. It's something to do with big numbers. Yeah. Also, there's a thing and I can't think of the name of it now, Gosh, you can't name it. There's lots of these laws or rules of finance and things of the world that people quote that are true. And there's a thing I can't remember the name of it. But it has to do with big numbers. That the more valuable something is, the more people want it. Now the big coins one hundred thousand dollars, more people want it than it did when it was one hundred dollars. It's like Louis with Tom persons. More people want to leave with Tom persons than they do just the regular purse. Some theory of high numbers, right, and people feel more confident when the incoming president of the United States says that the US government's going to get on board, and all these big companies and other countries around the world are interested in stockpiling bitcoin. That tells you that there's momentum behind this that is far beyond what a normal cryptocurrency has.

1:12:08 Right, yeah, we're. Talking right now. I'm stuck. And he wants to buy uh what's with the help of Center and a Lummus out of Wyoming, she submitted the bill. They want to buy two hundred thousand bitcoin, not two hundred thousand dollars worth, two hundred thousand bitcoin per year for the next five years. Get us a strategic reserve of five of a million bitcoin so that the US government is holding so that and then now he's also talking about having a cryptosar someone to be running that part of the economy, the cryptocurrency economy. So this has got to be the most friendly bitcoin team or yeah whatever. Not necessarily the president get the whole head of it. I mean, I think almost everybody who's involved owns a bitcoin. I mean, then everybody does, so they're not like going, oh, this is terrible stuff. It's make it illegal. So this is gonna be.

1:13:02 I feel bitcoin should do as good as it has ever done. I's not better under this group of people as far as bigcoin goes. Whether everything else goes good or not, I'm not saying, but I do think bitcoin this is the best thing that could happen to bitcoin. I think Bitcoin was gonna do great anyway, no matter who one rob because I don't think it can be stopped at this point. I just think with this group in there, it's gonna do great faster because they're all so pro bitcoin that it's gonna do even faster. But I think when it comes to a year or two years from now, it was gonna do good anyway. It doesn't matter because you can't kill it. Even if you cut the Internet off for the whole planet, whenever you turn it back on, your bitcoin would be there. And if that cut off, you got way more to worry about than your bitcoin.

1:13:46 I would say that the people that should be worried as probably people inside of the Federal Reserve. Well, because yeah. They should be. I wish, I said, I wish they could just shut it down. Yeah, Well that maybe the almost been. Just trying to audit it his whole life. I think you know, well, then that might be the result. It may take many a decade or so maybe for that to happen, but it's it that actually may be the outcome. We may be seeing the birth of an entirely new financial system. Well, I said, Andrew Jackson said, that was the greatest thing he ever did was under his presidency, was get rid of the FED. Then they their head evn't came back. They didn't kill it enough.

1:14:27 All right, all right, Well we'll see what happens. I think that probably will happen after you and I are probably gone. But I think I never know. I mean, it just depends on how all in everybody gets sure. But all right, said, this is the most revolutionary thing that's ever happened to finance. I mean, let's face it, I agree with It's the first time you had money that can't be inflated away. This first time you had money that you are in control of. No one can take your money from you, know, but they can if you're foolish, but if you're smart about it. It's the first time you've been able to I know a guy whose family, I know a couple guys, and actually I know quite a few people now I'm thinking about that their families when they were little kids fled Russia for the United States and they were able to leave with like ten dollars. They had to leave everything behind, where if bitcoin had been around, they wouldn't need to carry anything with them. All they got to do is get to their destination and they would arrive in the US with their fortunes intact, instead of having five dollars and starting all over from scratch. And really, don't we want all that money coming into the US instead of US sending it out all the time? Bitcoin should be great for the US because as people come, they're coming with all their wealth, not having to leave everything behind because the government wouldn't let me go on the airplane with their wealth. So it actually the US should be controlling pickcloining.

1:15:48 We should be controlling pickcoin. We should want it all here. This has gotten me about a years that's being so negative as a country toward bitcoin. We need to embrace it and adopt it and get it all in the United States and control where the world money supply. Well, Bitcoin's kind of world money. We need to have it all. Here right, well, all of the citizens of the United States as well as all the organizations are that exist in the United States, owning share of this will create a robust economy I think ultimately in the long run. And you start thinking about the technology layer that's coming with robotics and automation and also, I mean you can envision this this thought that Elon has put out. Elon Musk, the CEO of x and Tesla, his vision for what the future looks like is excessive abundance, right, So you combine bitcoin with robotics and automation and unlimited energy of sorts, and you can really see how we might be in the early stage of formulating a whole new type of civilization that's that's very self sustaining, very solid. People have the ability to live good quality lies. My worry is that there's going to be people left behind.

1:17:05 Yeah, And like I said, I think people will always be able to get into it, but you're right, there's going to be people who are not buying it now, who won't buy it when it's two hundred thousand, that won't buy it when it's a million dollars, and they're definitely going to be getting less of it than they could have gotten. So they will and in case be left behind. Something else that we haven't covered is that I don't think a lot of people understand that bitcoin is. Let me say, the Internet has a ton of protocolscually. There's a protocol for audio, there's a protocol for video, there's a protocol for photos, there's a protocol for everything. Everything has a protocol. But what was the one protocol that the Internet did not have that no one had built, no one could figure out how to build it, no matter how many of them tried. It was a protocol for money. And bitcoin was the protocol, the missing protocol that needed to be out there a protocol from money.

1:18:02 Sure there was money you could use PayPal, but that wasn't Internet protocol. That's a third party doing it. So that is what is so fascinating about bitcoin is somebody finally figured out how to make the missing protocol. So if you were like me, I started building e commerce sites back in ninety six, you were really interested in a protocol that didn't exist for the Internet. I mean that's what got me into it. I didn't get into it because they go, oh, maybe you can make a lot of money someday. But I started finding out it was an Internet protocol that was missing. That was like, oh wow, this is definitely gonna be successful. And that sounds like a pretty simplistic way to think about it, but that's how I thought about it originally. It's just the fact that it was an Internet protocol and that protocol did not exist, and it was a protocol that was needed. So that's a big deal to me.

1:18:48 Yeah, I agree. Well, Gary, it's been great to have you on the show on trust Factor. I think we've. Hopefully built a little trust out there about bitcoin and maybe the upside potential of what we're seeing happen in the world today. And those that invested in it early are transforming their lives as we see bitcoin go up. But they if you don't need to realize it's still early. See that's yeah. I guess people at one hundred dollars thought they were late. Aren't they happy now? And the people who buy it one hundred they're going to be happy to I truly believe. I guess I just bought yesterday at ninety seven thousand dollars. I don't believe. Yeah, I know, I bought some just we could go myself when and was really high as well because I do have that same level of optimism about what's going on here and its impact, and all these other large organizations, governments, whatever, coming in and stockpiling it is going to be an interesting dynamic to play out, and it's going to drive the value of it up.

1:19:47 It's a new it's a new dynamic for sure. It's a definitely dude that incorporation's buying it. Two of those those are going to drastically shift it, and I just like you, hope that more more and more people get into it before they can't afford it, or before what they get is a pittance compared to what they could have had. I truly do That's the only reason I do these shows. That's the only reason I do anything public about bitcoin is really, like I said, I'm not doing it. I'm not giving out a code where I can get a disc referral fee. I'm just trying to like educate people that bitcoin because I think it's that important. And then the thing that is something I also like can say which I haven't said, and we went over this a little bit earlier. You have bitcoiners, you have bitcoin, and you have twenty thousand shit coins cryptocurrencies. People that buy cryptocurrencies, want to make money. Everybody wants to make money, so don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking that, but that's their whole goal is I want to make money.

1:20:44 I can trade ethereum for Solano or for Cardono or whatever, and I can make all this money. But people who invest in bitcoin, pretty much all the hardcore bitcoiners that have existed through time, realize they can make money, but they're going to change the world. And they think it's as important to change the world as it is to make money. And bitcoin is going to change the world. So I ask why, I say, it's going to change everything. So I'm more worried about bringing as many people on the boat with me as I can. I want all the boats to rise. I want that tie to take everybody up, not just the corporations and the companies and the people who got it in a long time ago. And so in that thought pattern, we both do agree. But they've got to start spending at least five minutes a week investigating this. Right, no one's fault but their own.

1:21:41 I mean it is. I mean, because like I said, bitcoin doesn't care who you are, don't care where you live, It has no rules or guidance. It just does its thing. If you want to participate, jump on in. Everybody's inviting you. No one's saying keep out, you know. Yeah, So I think it's very important at the stage to get education out there about bitcoin. Deeper understanding by more people is a good thing. It's certainly a good role for podcasts. It's a good role for YouTube or content creators out there to be talking about this. That's why I invited you on because I think this is a time that people really have to have a better understanding of what's going on here. And I'm and I enjoy I mean, I do the Bitcoin boomer Show every week. If someone should check that out, where we talk about bitcoin. But you know I have I never turned down anyone that wants to talk about bitcoin.

1:22:30 I wouldn't have turned you down anyway, no matter what you wanted to talk about. We've known each other way too long. But I enjoy being on people's podcast because I want to share the word. It's a weird thing to say, but it's oh, gosh, I can't I can't think. I can't think of this now, not the gosh, I can't. There there's a religious group out there that I can't think of their name. And I'm not knocking this religion by any means, but they think that only like one hundred thousand people can go to heaven. Oh okay, my friend is a member of this and I've told me say, well, you're not going that's the case because I know you and there. You are not even gonna rank up with all the people from the history of Christianity. You will never break it to the top one hundred thousand, no matter what you do. And he says, but he goes every Wednesday, goes from house to house down the street, talking about his religion, trying to convert people. And he converts people not because he thinks he's gonna go to heaven, because he realizes he's not gonna go to heaven. He's not gonna be one hundred thousand, no matter how many people have converted. But he wants everybody to be living, everlasting on earth. To me, I'm trying to get people into bitcoin, not because it's gonna make my bitcoin higher.

1:23:46 I mean, gosh, someone buys a billion dollars worth a bitcoin at hard that goes up. So if you buying five dollars a month it's not gonna make my bitcoin worth more. I just want you on for the ride when it's over. So it's a lot of similarities between prophesizing, is what I'm trying to say. You know, I feel prophesizing not because I'm going to get more money, because it's what I should do to help people out. Yeah, I think it is a path to get on the trajectory of growing value instead of being in a currency that's about depreciating value. I think that's the real simple way to think about this is that bitcoin is a path towards I think, increasing prosperity, where currency is a path toward decreasing prosperity. So which side do you want to be on?

1:24:30 And actually, like we said earlier, I don't care about I don't care how poor you are. I mean I say that and I have money. So but to me, it seems like no matter how poor you are, you could buy a dollar's worth of bitcoin a month if you gave up a habit, maybe you give up lottery cards or something. And not everybody does this. So I'm not trying to be I'm not trying to be that guy who's not in the situation and not understanding, but I truly believe that anyone could come up with it. You could go outside of seven to eleven and look around at the ground and find a dollar and by dollars worth of bitcoin, because you can buy that small amount. And I think that people who don't have a lot are the ones that need to really start getting into it with whatever they can afford, because it's an asset that they can get into. They don't have a bank account, they can't go get into stock market, they can't take advantage of those opportunities, but they can still take advantage of this opportunity. And hopefully I'm not coming off as real harsh, because that's not my goal that I'm trying.

1:25:27 That's not what point I'm trying to make. I'm trying to make the point that people who have little or no assets can get into this where they can't get into other ways of making money. They can't participate in what other people with money can participate in, but in this they can. I think that the future looks bright when you equate bitcoin into our future, so it's definitely a positive thing. Gary, thank you so much for spending so much time with me, time to educate people and hopefully we'll get a lot of people watching this that can that can pick up a lot of tips around what is going on with bitcoin. So thank you for inviting me, and thank you also for taking over on the post of making sure that the Bitcoin Hall of Fame continues. Really started the podcast Hall of Fame as person who started that, that is near and dear to my heart. So I'm glad to see it wasn't something that had a five year run and pittered out when that first year, as I told you, were in appreciow. I just picked all the people for the first year. I'd hate to see them have to go through all that or maybe not even get in the Hall of Fame because now they're not known because so much time has gone by, and then you have just these celebrities that are known big time. Getting in podcasting was another thing that regular folks got the front run.

1:26:42 Right, right, So when are you going to start the Bitcoin Hall of Fame? I didn't know how you do that. I'm through. I always said that. I used to say that I was really good at seeing what was going to come up. Things are gonna be hot, Like I started building e commerce sites in ninety six when people told me I was stupid. People wouldn't buy stuff on the interset. And I remember in two thousand and four I started telling people about podcasting, said that's stupid. You can listen to your car radio. Why would you listen to a podcast? And now I'm telling people about bitcoin and they're going, ah, it's made up money. So this is probably at seventy My last Hurrah is just educating people about bitcoin, which is what my conference is. It's really just educating about people about bitcoin. But Rob, thank you for taking over the podcasting Hall of Fame and making sure that keeps going.

1:27:27 That's pretty exciting to me. Now, I know there are more people than you involved, but I'm talking to you right now, so I'm just. Sure sure you sure? Well, yeah, there's definitely a growing list of people that are involved in it now. So what's the. Best path for someone that's watching this that wants to get into bitcoin and also learn more about what you're doing and how other resources? Well, if you want to follow me, I'm pretty much just Gary Leland everywhere, so I'm pretty easy find. But the best path to do is basically what I say. That's number one, Go read the bitcoin white paper that is explaining what bitcoin is Seducina Kamoto wrote that, as you released bitcoin, and that'll take you twenty minutes to read.

1:28:13 If twenty minutes it's not that complicated, read that and you get an understanding of the idea behind bitcoin. I was in a bitcoin like two years forever bought them to read it, so I was like, oh, this is really educational. Read that and then go to swan or go to River or go to unchained and set up to start doing some dollar cost averaging and buy yourself. Figure out how much money you can afford per week or per month to do. Some people that's gonna be five dollars, some people that's going to be five thousand dollars. But figure out what you can afford to do. And like I said, if you have to quit a habit or peeing money away to do it, quit that and do it and put something away every month. In bitcoin, you can do it and not even notice it. And believe me, giving up cigarettes or e cigarettes or liquor is way better to own bitcoin than have those, I promise you. And then between reading the white paper, signing it for dollar cost averaging, I would gamble to say within a year. You've gone down the rabbit hole and you understand bitcoin, and you're going to be sending me an email thanks for being on Rob Show. I now have bitcoin, and I would never have this much wealth as was for you.

1:29:28 Yeah, my future looks financially bright because of it, right. Right, exactly. Yeah, it changes everything you start. That rabbit hole is a deep rabbit hole and you'll be in it for you. All I watch is bitcoin content now, Oh I watch, well, I watched TV. It's on YouTube, and I'm watching bitcoin content all day because you can never it's never a never ending rabbit hole. Well, and there is a lot of bitcoin content on YouTube that is very helpful. I know. I've been watching them quite a bit more lately and it's helped me understand, yeah, more about what's going on than I had paid a attention to before. Even though I owned bitcoin, it wasn't like I was paying attention to it for multiple years. And I also bought mine through Swan, just like which you had mentioned. It seems like a really credible company and we do a nice job.

1:30:13 And all openness and tend to me openest I do. I am an early investor in Swan but I'm not in Unchained and I'm not in River, so I was naming the top three, so I don't want come. I go, oh yeah, everybody go to Swan. He owns part of that as our early advisor. They gave me stock for my participation. So but I'm just saying it because I think it's a good company. I wouldn't have been involved with them, but I gave you two other ones also. Yeah, yeah, no, I think it is. I mean my experience with it has been good. So I had my sister. My sister uses him, and she's seventy five, so I would not have my sister use it. But that says a lot, actually, because that's exactly some of the people that need to embrace this, as ones that are in their sixties.

1:30:56 And actually soryous. My sister call me up the other day in a panic, going, all my bitcoins missing from my account. There's no bitcoin in there, and I went to their contact page. What a piece of shit. You can only send him an email, you can't call like, well, I'll send me. That's pretty much the way the whole world is now. She was, but my biscoin missing is missing, So you know, I know people there since who I am? And so I sent a message and Corey said, well, we've never lost anyone's bitcoin. I'm sure it's there. Turns out she changed her email address and forgot it was logging in with her own email address, and it was an account that had no bitcoin in it. She had good So so they do have customer service. She would have got to help, but she just got it faster because I had to make sure my sister didn't have.

1:31:40 A heart at time. Now. Yeah, so I noticed on Swan if you invested in bitcoin, like four or five years ago, those investment accounts in Swan are considered now to be legacy accounts or wire only accounts. I'm not. And then recently I invested new funds into it and it creates did a new account? Do you happen to know what the differences between a legacy account and a new account? I do not. I do not know. You don't. I don't keep up on the day to day with that. Ah, got it. I was just curious if it was a common practice. Yeah, that earlier were investing was differently. I do know they were using. They don't, they're not. They don't hold bitcoin. You're never gonna have to worry about someone hacking into Swan are stealing their computers. They use a third party that's a vault company. They always used to hold your bitcoin, so it's being held to keep them out of the loop so you don't have to worry about them. So I do know that maybe a year and a half ago, I'm saying they switched vault companies. Maybe the people who have legacy accounts still have a vault with the old company and the other ones have a vault with the new company because they switched walt companies. So I'm just guessing though, so they'll hold me to that.

1:32:57 Well, that's the impression I've gotten in the inner faces that there there was a different kind of storage methodology in the past, and that this new one is newer and it seems to be maybe a little bit better. Yeah, I think maybe it was an upgrade, or maybe they felt since they even though they don't hold your bitcoin, if something happens all the bitcoin, they're gonna get blamed because you paid them for your bitcoin, you know what I mean. So I think they keep up with what's going on, and maybe they felt that the newer service was more secure. I'm not sure. Like I said, I don't keep up with that yet because I don't keep any bitcoin on an exchange I transfer. Yeah, so I need to, Yeah, I need to transfer it from the legacy account over to something else. I'm not exactly sure how to do that, so well.

1:33:43 Cut definitely want walk you through that, just send them an email on their sheet. But you know, and also a little typically, but you don't want to be transferring around fifteen to twenty dollars worth of bitcoin their fees every time you transfer it, because that's how the mining companies make money, is transferring bitcoin. So maybe and it gets to definitely over one hundred dollars, I try not to transfer a bigcoin until it's one thousand dollars. You want to many the least amount of transactions that in your wallet is possible. So if I'm buying something for one thousand dollars and it takes forty transactions that I made to buy that, it's going to take up more room in the block, it's going to cost more. So yeah, so you want big tran That's a good way to wait till it gets a good amount and then transferred over those transferred every time it gets to be twenty five dollars. Yeah, if it's my dollars, you're not probably gonna die if you lose.

1:34:34 It, right, Yeah, all right, Gary, Well, thank you, and I appreciate everybody that's that watched this full video to the end that this is part of a series of shows that I've done I called Trust Factor, and it's on my YouTube channel at Rob Greenley. And then it's also an audio podcast that's available in Apple Podcasts and Spotify. So if you wanted to, you know, follow some of the older episodes that I've had. I've talked about a in the last episode, and then prior to that, I talked about like aliens and other types of secret societies around trust and so so definitely follow the show, and thank you so much. And I've got a bunch of other content on my YouTube channel too, So thank you very much, Gary, Thanks for spending so much time with me.

1:35:18 Enjoyed us. It's a long time spent a long time since we've talked. Yeah, we made all right, We did all right. Bye, everybody,