Aug. 31, 2026

Listen to the Whisper Before It Whips You: Dr. Alexis Yamokoski on Rebuilding After Burnout

Listen to the Whisper Before It Whips You: Dr. Alexis Yamokoski on Rebuilding After Burnout

I was so discouraged after talking with Dr. Alexis Yamokoski, and at the time I couldn't even put my finger on why. (Also, before you go there, it had literally nothing to do with this genuine sweetheart of a human).

And now, four months later, I know.

It was April 2, and I wasn't seeing or feeling the light yet. I knew it was there.

But I was tired. No money. No sleep. No clarity. No momentum that I could see. And for the first time since starting this podcast, which is literally a dream come true, I went into a conversation and wasn't excited.

That bothers me. This genius Humanologist, speaker, author, and friend deserved better. But listening back now through the lenses of everything that has happened since? Holy crap.

Dr. Alexis Yamokoski was talking about burnout, exhaustion and what happens when we keep pushing through the whispers our bodies are desperately trying to get us to hear.

“Peak performance and exhaustion cannot coexist.”

There I was.

She talked about cognitive overload making it difficult to find words. THERE I WAS.

She talked about recovery. Intuition. Human connection. Getting quiet enough to hear what you already know. And then she talked about darkness becoming light. I couldn't fully receive the message because I was still living inside the part of the story that made it hurt.

Four months later, everything looks different. Yesterday, through a completely unreal and somehow perfectly timed chain of HUMAN CONNECTION that started when I helped save someone's life at The Fray concert in July, I ended up backstage with Dashboard Confessional and The Fray on the final day of their Summer of Light Tour.

I helped save a life. And there was a time alcohol almost took mine.

I AM THE MIRACLE. And after spending so much of my life looking for the light...I AM THE LIGHT 🌈

Which makes the timing of this episode release a truly divinely timed blessing and opportunity for an announcement: This is the final episode I had “in the bag” before taking an (intentional summer) break from recording, and apparently that makes it the Season One finale of Quick Before You Forget.

Of course THIS is the one God left me with.

Because Alexis's forthcoming book? From Burnout to Becoming Light. You cannot make this up.

Listen to this one a little differently. Listen to Alexis's extraordinary story and what she teaches about burnout recovery, human energy, flow, curiosity and intuition.

But listen to me, too. Listen to what happens when the host slowly realizes the conversation she thought she was conducting might actually be the message she desperately needed herself. Maybe you need it today, too. Maybe you can't see the road yet. Keep going. You have no idea what's waiting farther down the yellow brick road.

🌈 Quick before you forget: You might be the miracle you've been waiting for.

WEBVTT

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When you recognize that, again, burnout, exhaustion, disengagement live at

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one end of the same stick as flow and peak performance,

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being and living as my best self, that they are

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polar opposites. And if my best self is over here,

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what is over here? Mediocrity. Yeah. And sometimes worse. Yeah.

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And you're choosing it. You get to choose which end

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of the stick you carry.

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Dr. Alexis, welcome to Quick Before You Forget.

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I'm so excited to be here. I'm ready to dive in.

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I'm so grateful that you're here, and I'm so excited

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for my friends to meet and learn from you. Friends,

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today's guest is someone that didn't just study human behavior.

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She lived her way back to it. Dr. Alexis is

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a PhD sociologist, a former marketing and brand experience leader,

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and now a catalyst for social change. helping people and

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organizations reconnect to what truly matters. After experiencing burnout and

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stepping into what she calls a great reassessment, she rebuilt

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her life from the inside out. And today she's helping

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others do the same through curiosity, empathy, and a deeply

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human approach to growth. Dr. Alexis, I believe our story

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is our superpower. So what I'd like to do is

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walk through yours together, past, present, and future. How does

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that sound?

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Oh, I'd love it.

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Beautiful. So let's go way back to start with. Quick

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before you forget, what is a moment from your childhood

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that shaped who you became and who you are today?

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Yeah. I think a big part of my childhood was

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being an only child who really aspired for my parents'

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love and attention. They were both givers in their own professions.

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My father was a psychologist and my mother was a

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speech pathologist helping people at the end of their lives

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in nursing homes. And so not unusual for a three Enneagram,

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for those of you who know three, the high achiever,

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seeking love and affirmation through the parents, as most kids do.

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I certainly did that by trying to identify with them

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and things that they cared about. And for me, with

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my dad, it was playing golf. So I became a

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very avid golfer, a competitive golfer at a young age,

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around age 10, started competing competitively. And there really weren't

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opportunities for girls at the time. So I was playing

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with the boys on the boys' back tees. And by

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the time I got to high school, I was co-captain

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of the boys' golf team. Facing a lot of resistance

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and certainly developing my resilience. So I was one of

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those girls who was taking the spot of a boy,

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even though I had competed, again, in the same standards

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that they had and really had proven myself to have

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the opportunity to be there. I think looking back, it

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completely shaped who I was and what I was capable

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of doing throughout my career, and especially in marketing and

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advertising really paving a path for myself as a doctorate

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in sociology with a focus in social psych. When I

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started in marketing advertising, we didn't care a whole lot

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about what the consumer said or what the customer felt.

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It was more about what is the big idea. And

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oftentimes it was a bunch of men in a room

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making these decisions. So being able to navigate that world,

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I think as an executive, a leader, often being the

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only woman in the room was really shaped by my

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early childhood experiences of being the only girl in the

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golf tournament.

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The only girl in the golf tournament who didn't just

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do that, but you rocked it. Like you elevated to

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levels which are super impressive. And you loved golf. Do

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you still golf?

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I still golf. I don't know that I ever loved golf.

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I love what golf provided me, which was the attention

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that I was seeking and an opportunity to prove myself

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as a high achiever. I think it was probably also

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the beginning of denying my authentic self. There was certainly

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times where I would rather be doing other things and

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I wasn't doing it for the joy of it. I

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was doing it for the chasing of the achievement versus

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the joy. So now when I play golf, I play

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nine holes, sometimes seven, and it is for the joy

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of the pure shot, the elation of sinking the putt,

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I have certainly evolved, but I really denied what I

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wanted for a long time. In fact, I even chose

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to go to a school for college that was a

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professional golf management school, thinking that I was going to

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do something in the profession of golf. And I ended

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up going and getting my doctorate in sociology and going

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down a totally different path. It was a big pivot

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in life, but I think I finally stopped denying what

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I really wanted. And I struggled with that throughout my

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college experience. I was on golf scholarship, but I was

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also in the honors program academically. And I remember standing

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on the putting green during finals week with the tears

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just falling down my face because all I wanted to

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be doing was studying. I was definitely a nerd, still

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am a nerd. And I wasn't where I wanted to be.

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And I had interpreted it as depression. But I think

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what I was really doing was denying my authentic self

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and denying that whisper that at that point, had really

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started turning into a much greater shout in my brain. Yeah.

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I had a feeling that you didn't love golf, but

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I didn't, I didn't know, you know, what's interesting about

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that to me is that you are, you are, you

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found things to be grateful for in the golfing, you know, you, you,

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you had it shape and help where you went and you,

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it wasn't always your first choice, which is like, you know,

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it's interesting when you can, you can look back and think, okay, I,

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I enjoyed it for different reasons. Like I didn't enjoy

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it in the way that, you know, I didn't love golf,

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you know, but I, I, it did, it did provide

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you with experience that mattered. So that's super impactful for you.

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And I'm, I'm grateful that you were able to find some,

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some good in something that like ultimately you pivoted from.

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So it, it makes me curious, like, because of the

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high achieving and because of the wanting to, to have

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your parents' attention and Who were you before the world

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told you who you should be?

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Well, who I was and who I am is a

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very empathetic person who is driven by human connection. I'm

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also very much, well, I have learned and no longer

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deny it that my hermit is in my house of

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highest potential, which makes a lot of sense. I love

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human potential. I love human connection. But I really have

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to take that time from my own full potential to

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be alone with my thoughts, to be observing, to lead

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with great curiosity. I think the foundation of who I

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am is somebody who is loving and caring and kind.

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And I can see the big picture and I can

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also see those micro moments. I think that's also one

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of my talents is being able to go from the

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macro to the micro. Hence, I loved psychology and I

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love sociology. So my father was a psychologist. So I said, okay,

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I'll be the sociologist, but I'll focus in social psych.

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And little did I know that I was going to

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have the opportunity to really create 20 years of a

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career of bringing human behavior insights to organizations to help

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optimize the stakeholder experience. You know, I always want to

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figure out how I can nurture emotional connections so that

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people have even more positive experiences. And I've gotten to

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do that for the last 20 years.

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So you call yourself a chief humanologist, which I love.

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What's something about human behavior that people are getting completely

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wrong right now?

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The thing that I am most passionate about right now

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is our understanding of the importance of protecting our human energy.

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I think we have really lost our way on that.

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I will share more about my own burnout experience, but

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I think for me, what a big transition moment was

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for me in the last four years of finding my

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way to an organization where I'm now one of the

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co-founders and the chief humanologist at Five to Flow was

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learning about how we are best able to step into

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our peak performance to access flow. And that in order

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to do so, we have to protect our human energy.

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We've decided as I think just as it feels like

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almost as a global self of how we do business,

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that exhaustion, physical, emotional, cognitive exhaustion is just the status quo.

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It's the price of doing business. It's the price of success.

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But what I know now is that it truly is

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costing us. It's costing us performance, productivity, and ultimately profits.

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At the end of the day, as again, from that

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macro to micro perspective, it's costing the organization and it's

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costing the individual. I know now that peak performance and

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exhaustion cannot coexist. So all of those times that I

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was choosing to push through, choosing to not follow my instinct,

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to give myself time to release, reset, or recover, I

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was actually choosing mediocrity. And I think that that is

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one of the biggest things that we are missing right

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now in terms of understanding human behavior and what is

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possible for us as a community, as a culture, is

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that we are actually choosing the lesser things. So oftentimes

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I'm able to go into rooms and speak to high achievers,

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and I really want them to wake up to this

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idea and understanding that every day that you choose to

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forfeit your human energy, that you choose to give it away,

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then you are actually choosing mediocrity. You're choosing it for yourself.

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You're choosing it for your family, for your friends, and

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for your organization.

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You mentioned your burnout story, which I've had the blessing

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to already hear, but I want to have you share

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it as long and as detailed as you'd like with, um,

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we were at an event together, friends, where we, it

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was called a scar story, but we're going to call

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it a, we're going to call it whatever, whatever Dr.

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Alexis wants to call it, but tell us, tell us

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your walkthrough burnout and how it's shaped what you're doing now.

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Yeah. Yeah. So that day when we had the opportunity

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to share our scar stories, I will share with you

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that it really resonated with me because for me, it's

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not just my scar story. It is the greatest gift

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that my body has ever given me because it truly

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put me on my path to my purpose. And what

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I do now in helping people in organizations move from

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burnout and exhaustion and disengagement to flow and peak performance.

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My burnout story, I think like most people's starts in

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my personal realm. You know, our body doesn't separate what

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is professional from personal. It handles it as emotion and exhaustion,

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no matter what it is. And I had shared with

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you that I was an only child, very close to

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both of my parents. My mother was an alcoholic and I, hence,

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I think that was part of driving my relationship with

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my father of really wanting to be even closer to

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him more. And at the end of their lives, my

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mother was dying from her alcoholism and my father was

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dying from his battle with Parkinson's. So he had had

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Parkinson's for nearly 15 years. And there was a day

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where I had to make the decision that I could

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no longer as an only child. And even with the

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support of my husband, that we can no longer care

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for them on my, on our own. And I asked, I,

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I got the doctor to, create a reference for hospice

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to come to the home, I told my mom. I

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shared with her that they were coming for my father.

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When the hospice nurse arrived and the caseworker arrived, they

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pulled me aside and asked me if they were really

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there for my mother. And I admitted the truth to

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them that they were. So that day, under great resistance

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from my mother, I signed both my parents up for

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hospice care. My mother passed away about a month and

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a half later. But because of her alcoholism, and I

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think because of the way that we carried it with

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such shame and secrets, we never talked about her alcoholism.

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We never talked about the fact that she was dying.

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We never talked about the fact she was dying from

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her alcoholism. Even on the last days of her life,

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when she was still able to communicate, we didn't talk

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about it. And carrying all of that while also working.

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And at the time, I was also traveling about half

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the time. I stopped working, I believe, maybe the last

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two or three weeks of her life while she was

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more in a coma state. One thing people, I think,

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are not aware if you haven't had an experience with

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hospice is it's not 24-7 care. It may be them

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stopping in for an hour once a day, once every

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other day to check vitals, but really also provide support

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It's an incredible organization. And I encourage people to not

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wait until those last days that it's something that can

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be of great benefit for even up to six months.

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Oftentimes you're able to still provide support. So I was

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navigating all of that and really trying to continue to

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present myself as the leader that I knew myself to

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be at work, but subtle shifts were happening. One of

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the things that I struggle with under extreme cognitive load

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is word finding. And I was having trouble even remembering

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my colleagues' names. And there was one colleague in particular

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who I had recruited and hired and was on my team.

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And I remember the day that I look at her

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to say her name and I couldn't find it. And

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I began hearing the whispers of a suggestion of a

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lack of commitment from me when really It was me

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trying to mask over and over again, my own burnout.

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And it really was my exhaustion that was coming through.

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So carrying that with me, I delayed my parents. I

250
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delayed my mom's funeral for, I think, a month or

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so so that I could kind of get back to

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work and compose myself and still was caring for my

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father and navigating all of that at the end of

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the last months of his life. So that the day

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after the day of the funeral, I knew the next

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day I was going back to work. I still had

257
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the family and friends in town. And I chose to

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be at a new business pitch that very next day

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and sitting on a flight to California that afternoon to

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kick off a new client account. And I remember sitting

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on that plane with tears streaming down my face, wondering

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where my priorities were. What did I value in life?

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What was I doing here? It felt incredibly surreal to

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know that the people that I loved We're back at

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my home, continuing to be together and grieving and processing.

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And here I was back to work. But I decided

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to keep on pushing through. It's what I had done

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all my life. Even though I had heard the whispers

269
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in my head to take the time, take the time

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to recover, take the time to process. I did all

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the right things. I went to grief counseling. I had

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a different therapist. I really tried hard to be present

273
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in the moment with my family, but ultimately my burnout

274
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continued to stay with me because I didn't heal. And

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I had continued to push through and chase and not

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slow down enough to really process. I think like most people,

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it's much easier to stuff and push it down, then

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let it go flow through our body. And we know

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that these emotions can sit in our body and continue

280
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to weigh us down. So after my father died a

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few months later, I did end up resigning and ended

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up consulting and having a successful consulting business pretty quickly.

283
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It's another one of those affirmations that, yep, that was

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the right choice when it just flows to you with ease.

285
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I say, if you're rowing, you're not flowing. So when

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you're facing resistance, that's when you know you're not in alignment.

287
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And I certainly knew I was. But it came to

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a point where I knew I wanted to be part

289
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of something much greater than myself. My background was in sociology,

290
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a focus in social inequality. And I really aspired to

291
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have an opportunity to give back to our community. And

292
00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:33.849
the opportunity to join our public transportation in our city

293
00:17:35.109 --> 00:17:38.779
presented itself. And I onboarded as the chief marking and

294
00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.859
experience officer in January of 2020. I oversaw our sales.

295
00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:48.369
our customer service, our call center, and our marketing and advertising,

296
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our marketing and branding department. And the intention was to

297
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drive transformation. Again, January of 2020, we did not know

298
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what was on the horizon, but just a month and

299
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a half, two months later, our worlds all were turned

300
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upside down. And being part of an organization that was

301
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considered a frontline to have frontline employees and part of

302
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.039
an integral part of the community to keep the community

303
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:23.690
moving forward was very humbling at the time to one,

304
00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:29.049
both have the knowledge that the experience that we were

305
00:18:29.130 --> 00:18:32.930
all having and sharing the, the fear of the pandemic

306
00:18:33.170 --> 00:18:35.829
and the fear of the repercussions of that. We were

307
00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:38.730
fearing that for ourselves, for our loved ones, And then

308
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.880
as a leader for this organization, also carrying that concern

309
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.019
for our team members. It was a lot in a

310
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.660
very short amount of time. No playbook for any of

311
00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:51.980
us in any of our lives, let alone a playbook

312
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:56.200
for leadership in public sector and let alone in public transportation.

313
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But we were able to drive an incredible amount of

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00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:02.019
positive change. We called it a one in a hundred

315
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.700
year moment of opportunity and really trying to reframe it

316
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as an opportunity to drive transformation and I co-led the

317
00:19:08.529 --> 00:19:12.710
reinvention task force for our organization. But we were working

318
00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:15.970
seven days a week, meeting at 11 a.m. and 4 p.m.

319
00:19:16.009 --> 00:19:19.970
daily as a leadership team for months on end. And

320
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it really was just, it was not sustainable to continue

321
00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:28.529
to live that way and to be leading, I think,

322
00:19:28.589 --> 00:19:32.470
such great change with also facing a lot of resistance.

323
00:19:33.369 --> 00:19:36.009
It's not unusual to face resistance and then you layer

324
00:19:36.210 --> 00:19:39.599
on Of course, people are feeling resistant. They're fearful for

325
00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.039
their own lives, let alone the change that's happening within

326
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.529
an organization. Again, you don't separate the emotion. Fear is fear,

327
00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:48.369
whether you're feeling it at home or at work. So

328
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it was just a really heavy time. And I had

329
00:19:50.859 --> 00:19:54.460
started struggling again with the word finding. I had started

330
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:56.940
struggling and seeing those same symptoms from when I was

331
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previously trying to push through with caring for my parents

332
00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:02.700
and still working full time, struggling with this lack of sleep,

333
00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:08.579
with anxiety and began having trouble eating again. That's my thing. I,

334
00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:10.690
that's one of my, I get this pit in my

335
00:20:10.730 --> 00:20:14.390
stomach and my stomach feel like it's in knots and

336
00:20:14.549 --> 00:20:17.170
all the symptoms were there again. And all of the

337
00:20:17.210 --> 00:20:21.039
whispers were there to just take the time to step back,

338
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to stop pushing through. And I kept hushing the whispers.

339
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.339
So I, I did the right thing though. I, I

340
00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:31.900
scheduled a vacation and I had my daughter and her

341
00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.859
best friend. We were coming down to South Carolina, driving

342
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.180
through the mountains. And I was pushing through because I

343
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wanted to get us to our condo that night to

344
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:47.140
be able to kick off our vacation. And I remember

345
00:20:47.269 --> 00:20:51.410
as the sun began setting, some of the anxiety started

346
00:20:51.430 --> 00:20:55.250
dialing up and the mountain road became more and more windy.

347
00:20:55.690 --> 00:20:58.910
And we came into an area of construction, miles and

348
00:20:58.950 --> 00:21:01.589
miles of construction. So barricades on the left and barricades

349
00:21:01.650 --> 00:21:05.819
on the right. one lane road and the truck's lights

350
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.740
began blinding me and the anxiety really began setting in.

351
00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:15.259
My hands began to tremble. My heart was racing. I

352
00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:18.930
remember rolling down the window. The girls were fast asleep.

353
00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:21.990
I turned up the air conditioning and was blasting all

354
00:21:22.009 --> 00:21:23.690
of the air I could on me. I turned up

355
00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:27.769
the volume of the music I was listening to, anything

356
00:21:27.809 --> 00:21:30.789
I could do to stay present in the moment. but

357
00:21:30.829 --> 00:21:33.230
it had already taken over and I began having a

358
00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:36.450
full blown panic attack and one in which I truly

359
00:21:36.490 --> 00:21:39.630
dissociated from my body. And at one point could not

360
00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:42.960
feel my extremities to be driving the car. There was

361
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:47.299
nowhere for me to turn off. And that night I

362
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.920
literally became so close to losing control of the vehicle

363
00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:54.190
and nearly killing the three of us that night. It

364
00:21:54.269 --> 00:21:57.109
really was the night that changed everything for me. My

365
00:21:57.190 --> 00:22:00.990
burnout was no longer about me. It had become about

366
00:22:01.009 --> 00:22:04.089
the people that I cared about and loved. And little

367
00:22:04.130 --> 00:22:06.970
did I know that all this time, my burnout was

368
00:22:07.069 --> 00:22:10.329
never just about me. It was about me. It was

369
00:22:10.349 --> 00:22:12.549
about the people I loved. It was about the people

370
00:22:12.609 --> 00:22:15.190
I was working with. It was about the organizations that

371
00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:20.480
I was leading. My actions to forfeit my human energy,

372
00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:25.779
to sacrifice it, was affecting everybody and everyone. So we

373
00:22:25.819 --> 00:22:28.420
made it to safety. I was able to get off

374
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at the next exit. The girls had no idea that

375
00:22:31.289 --> 00:22:33.569
anything had happened. They just knew we were stopping at

376
00:22:33.630 --> 00:22:36.059
some motel on the side of the road. And we

377
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:37.980
were fortunate to get the last room that night and

378
00:22:38.019 --> 00:22:41.099
shared a king bed. And I cried myself to sleep

379
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.740
in the pillow. They were still zonked out hearing nothing,

380
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:46.559
but I had committed to myself that I would change,

381
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.349
that I was no longer going to tolerate this in

382
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:52.309
my life, that I couldn't accept this way of being

383
00:22:52.349 --> 00:22:54.369
and that it wasn't meant for who I was meant

384
00:22:54.430 --> 00:22:57.490
to be. Ty, you asked who I was before I

385
00:22:57.529 --> 00:22:59.650
was told who I was supposed to be. That was

386
00:22:59.710 --> 00:23:02.140
a night where I really tapped into that because I

387
00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:06.420
knew I was denying my authentic self. I think I

388
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.529
know my natural biology. We all do. We just deny it.

389
00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:13.069
And that happened on a Thursday and I resigned from

390
00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:17.430
my job on a Monday. That night was truly the

391
00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:20.210
greatest gift that my body could ever given me. I

392
00:23:20.269 --> 00:23:22.660
had denied it and denied it and denied it until

393
00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.309
that Whisper turned into a shout, turned into a great

394
00:23:26.349 --> 00:23:28.910
big roar, and ultimately the shove that pushed me over

395
00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:31.210
the edge and truly led me to my path to

396
00:23:31.250 --> 00:23:32.470
purpose and what I do now.

397
00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:37.789
As you're telling that story, I felt my whole heart

398
00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:42.450
just start to race. The idea of being on that

399
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.019
road and not having anywhere to go and not being

400
00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:50.339
able to feel anything, I can't believe. I'm so grateful

401
00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:52.720
that it turned out like it did because honestly, a

402
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.700
lot of times it doesn't. So we're so like, I,

403
00:23:55.980 --> 00:24:00.049
it's a miracle that you're here and you're okay, but

404
00:24:00.069 --> 00:24:03.890
then you're doing this incredible thing, turning your pain into purpose.

405
00:24:03.990 --> 00:24:07.150
Like you're, you have now stepped into a life where

406
00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:11.609
you help others work through the burnout that, you know,

407
00:24:12.289 --> 00:24:16.150
could have taken your life. Like, honestly, that, that night and,

408
00:24:16.269 --> 00:24:19.109
and those, those precious little baby girls who had no ideas,

409
00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:23.569
isn't that, isn't that how it goes? I'm so grateful that,

410
00:24:23.710 --> 00:24:26.029
that you, you know, were able to, to, to make

411
00:24:26.069 --> 00:24:29.099
it through. And then now that you're, you're choosing to

412
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:32.759
turn what happened to you into, I don't know, cautionary

413
00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:34.960
tale isn't even the right thing, but just like a

414
00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.039
message to, to reach people where they're at. And you

415
00:24:39.059 --> 00:24:42.519
said something really powerful about if you're rowing, you're not flowing.

416
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:45.920
Can you walk us through what that is? Like, cause

417
00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:49.119
at a, at a very, like, it sounds good. But,

418
00:24:49.299 --> 00:24:51.500
you know, can you talk us through what that looks

419
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.279
like for people and how they can kind of redirect

420
00:24:54.539 --> 00:24:55.569
when they recognize it?

421
00:24:56.299 --> 00:25:04.420
Yeah. I think that having that kind of self-awareness, it's

422
00:25:04.579 --> 00:25:07.299
part of that first step of reaching that level of

423
00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:10.359
self-awareness to know if I'm rowing, I'm not flowing is

424
00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:15.420
about slowing down and being still in your body because

425
00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:17.000
otherwise you don't realize you're rowing.

426
00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:21.029
But isn't that so hard for like, okay, we're talking

427
00:25:21.049 --> 00:25:25.009
about high achievers, right? And generally speaking, high achievers don't

428
00:25:25.150 --> 00:25:28.170
slow down. And this kind of thing needs to happen

429
00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:30.819
sometimes to smack them in the face and say, you

430
00:25:30.859 --> 00:25:36.240
need to slow down. So how do you recognize that

431
00:25:36.339 --> 00:25:39.519
before it gets to the point of nearly killing you?

432
00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:42.420
I think a big part for me is being able

433
00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:50.240
to balance both the intuition side of myself and more

434
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.160
of the cognitive side. So when I began to truly

435
00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:57.740
understand flow theory and what the flow cycle is and

436
00:25:57.829 --> 00:26:01.390
how it works, it made me as a high achiever

437
00:26:01.690 --> 00:26:04.450
choose that option because I know it's actually going to

438
00:26:04.490 --> 00:26:06.890
be the best option for my performance. So let me

439
00:26:06.930 --> 00:26:09.259
share with you a little bit about that background. So

440
00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:11.660
at Five to Flow, we study the neuroscience of flow.

441
00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:15.789
And The idea that we watch these athletes and these

442
00:26:15.829 --> 00:26:18.950
great performers and artists, we watch them in their zone

443
00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:21.119
and in flow. We just, you know, the Olympics were

444
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:24.859
just a few months ago. We were watching flow in

445
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:29.980
real time. And they know something because they've tapped into

446
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.369
their natural biology and we've accepted it to be the

447
00:26:32.450 --> 00:26:35.789
truth for that type of profession that we deny for

448
00:26:35.849 --> 00:26:38.930
ourselves in the business world. And that is the flow cycle.

449
00:26:39.849 --> 00:26:42.109
So again, for me, having an awareness as a high

450
00:26:42.130 --> 00:26:44.589
achiever of how the flow cycle works, I can have

451
00:26:44.650 --> 00:26:47.450
the cognitive awareness now to try to decide to do

452
00:26:47.490 --> 00:26:53.579
something differently. Flow cycle is four steps, struggle, release, flow,

453
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:58.509
and recovery. Okay. Struggle. You know, we talk about stress

454
00:26:58.670 --> 00:27:02.609
and everyone has this immediate negative connotation, but there's also

455
00:27:02.789 --> 00:27:07.710
good stress. The issue happens, you know, because growth, great

456
00:27:07.789 --> 00:27:09.710
growth comes from stress. Think about what we do in

457
00:27:09.730 --> 00:27:13.210
the gym. You know, we're stressing our muscles. That's literally

458
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.339
what's happening, but we're doing it to an extreme that

459
00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:19.960
is enough. that it's not too much that we're too

460
00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:21.640
sore to get out of bed the next day. I mean,

461
00:27:21.990 --> 00:27:24.269
I think a lot of us have all done that

462
00:27:24.289 --> 00:27:26.450
and we're like, what did we do that for? So

463
00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:28.410
the next time we know to pull back a little bit.

464
00:27:28.829 --> 00:27:30.950
So you want to have it be just enough stress

465
00:27:31.130 --> 00:27:34.059
that it is promoting growth, but it's not too much

466
00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:37.460
stress that you can't be successful. So a lot of

467
00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:40.619
us do that at work, again, as high achievers, as

468
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:42.799
people who want to learn new things, who want to

469
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.250
continue to strive to the next. But the difference is

470
00:27:46.309 --> 00:27:49.960
we let ourselves continue to sit and struggle. We don't

471
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.839
step out of it. We just keep pushing through. The

472
00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:57.660
flow cycle itself is cyclical. You got to go through

473
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.220
all the steps. So struggle is the first one. But

474
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.460
then we have to give our brain the ability to pause,

475
00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:06.789
to know that it's safe, to be able to release.

476
00:28:07.029 --> 00:28:09.309
And that is the next phase. It's called release. And

477
00:28:09.349 --> 00:28:13.589
it can truly be micro moments throughout the day. Often

478
00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:15.710
I'll ask a group of people, how often have you

479
00:28:15.750 --> 00:28:18.589
come up with your best ideas in the shower? Almost

480
00:28:18.609 --> 00:28:21.609
the whole room raises their hand. Or you are driving

481
00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:23.630
to work and you don't even remember driving to work,

482
00:28:23.670 --> 00:28:25.609
but you know you solved that problem that you've been

483
00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:29.380
struggling with for a week, right? It's because we've given

484
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.779
ourselves the space and the freedom to feel safe and

485
00:28:33.859 --> 00:28:37.799
to release and to be able to reset things. So again,

486
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.740
so we have struggle, release, and then flow. Flow is

487
00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:45.950
that opportunity where we are in the zone. We are focused.

488
00:28:46.369 --> 00:28:50.990
It's almost as if time is paused. Sometimes when you

489
00:28:51.009 --> 00:28:53.089
find yourself in a state of flow, two hours have

490
00:28:53.269 --> 00:28:59.059
flown by, as we say, and it felt effortless. It

491
00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:03.579
felt good. You made progress. Again, sometimes what happens is

492
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.619
that we try to keep ourselves in that zone and

493
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:10.640
we don't realize that we have really depleted all of

494
00:29:10.700 --> 00:29:14.480
those positive hormones that got us there and kept us moving,

495
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.369
that we are now depleted and we have to restore ourselves.

496
00:29:18.750 --> 00:29:22.349
So we need to move into recovery. And recovery as

497
00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:24.849
a society, oh my gosh. So we live in struggle

498
00:29:24.930 --> 00:29:27.170
way too long. We forget to take a moment to

499
00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:30.230
reset and release. Just a deep breath, stepping outside, going

500
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:33.900
for a walk. we oftentimes don't even let ourselves get

501
00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:37.910
to it. And then recovery, oh my gosh. The first

502
00:29:37.950 --> 00:29:41.450
thing that we decide to sacrifice is sleep. You know,

503
00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:43.619
I mean, it used to, it wasn't that long ago

504
00:29:43.650 --> 00:29:45.619
that people would brag about the few number of hours

505
00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:47.640
that they would get for sleep. I think we're seeing

506
00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:50.400
a shift in that over the last few years, people

507
00:29:50.420 --> 00:29:53.880
are leaning with less around that. Like my four hours

508
00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:57.299
of sleep beat your, you Um, but we still are

509
00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.880
completely taking for granted that. And some of the top

510
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.089
athletes are being, you know, sharing very openly, you know,

511
00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:06.690
their goal is 10 to 12 hours of sleep because

512
00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:10.609
they recognize how important recovery is, but recovery looks very,

513
00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:12.809
you know, can look different for everybody. For some people,

514
00:30:12.869 --> 00:30:16.319
it is exercising. It's some people it's connecting with others.

515
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:18.799
Some people for me, again, hermit, my house of highest

516
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.420
potential is having my time to journal and my time

517
00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:25.500
to read. I meditate. There's all different ways that we

518
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.240
can build in recovery. But I promise you, if you

519
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.579
don't build in recovery after these big moments of performance,

520
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:36.140
you're right back into exhaustion. It is so critical. So

521
00:30:36.650 --> 00:30:40.650
I think for me, again, having that cognitive awareness is

522
00:30:40.750 --> 00:30:46.710
different than my intuition awareness or knowing my natural biology. Cognitively,

523
00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:50.589
I get there. And therefore, I don't deny my intuition

524
00:30:50.670 --> 00:30:53.890
that's also saying the same thing. And then together, they're

525
00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:55.589
both able to support each other.

526
00:30:58.930 --> 00:31:06.180
Thank you. I'm like, I was working through struggle, release, flow, recovery,

527
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:12.900
and it's a lot and it's not. Legitimately, logically, it

528
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:15.400
makes sense. And I still think that there's a lot

529
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:20.210
of people that struggle with all four zones, honestly, but

530
00:31:20.250 --> 00:31:26.059
then particularly the particularly the recovery part. And I, you know,

531
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.289
it's interesting that you said you doesn't, sleep is great.

532
00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:31.630
We all need sleep. Um, but you said it was,

533
00:31:31.750 --> 00:31:36.250
it's different for everybody. And you know, that is something

534
00:31:36.289 --> 00:31:40.630
that like, I'm wondering how people can like, is there

535
00:31:40.650 --> 00:31:43.690
a way to, to, to like lean in to the

536
00:31:43.730 --> 00:31:47.309
recovery at all? Like what, how do you figure out

537
00:31:47.349 --> 00:31:50.730
what works for you? Cause I think people skip through,

538
00:31:51.049 --> 00:31:52.849
you know, and they're like, Oh yeah.

539
00:31:53.549 --> 00:31:54.269
You know what I'm saying?

540
00:31:54.329 --> 00:31:58.670
So very much so. So coach somebody through it. Like how,

541
00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:01.809
how does somebody figure out how their body recovers?

542
00:32:03.289 --> 00:32:06.039
Well, I would even say before we get to understanding

543
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:11.839
how their body recovers, I think having an awareness, one,

544
00:32:11.900 --> 00:32:13.900
that there is a cycle and two, that we have

545
00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:17.809
to protect it. So understanding that it takes on average

546
00:32:17.809 --> 00:32:21.700
23 minutes to get into flow and is really important

547
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.819
because we have to work through struggle, right? And then

548
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.140
we have to give ourselves that moment of release and reset.

549
00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:28.880
And so it takes about 23 minutes. And so the

550
00:32:28.940 --> 00:32:31.269
way that we live our life, especially in the workplace,

551
00:32:31.529 --> 00:32:35.390
I think more there than anywhere else, we have all

552
00:32:35.450 --> 00:32:38.710
of the distractions that are ready to immediately knock us

553
00:32:38.910 --> 00:32:41.369
out of flow. So you think, you know, you have

554
00:32:41.390 --> 00:32:45.819
your team's messenger on your LinkedIn messenger on your email,

555
00:32:45.859 --> 00:32:48.960
your text messages, And we don't turn off those distractions,

556
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:51.460
but yet we say, I've got this big presentation due

557
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:53.660
tomorrow and I need to do some really strong strategic thinking.

558
00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:56.940
We do not set ourselves up for success with that.

559
00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.089
We have to provide ourselves flow blocks. We have to

560
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.230
make a commitment to that on our calendar. And just

561
00:33:03.289 --> 00:33:06.849
like we've committed to the flow block, we commit to

562
00:33:06.910 --> 00:33:10.509
the recovery time. So one of the things I really

563
00:33:10.529 --> 00:33:16.240
try to help teams and organizations understand that Again, recovery

564
00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:18.559
is so critical and it can look so different for everybody,

565
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:20.619
but having an awareness of building it in, I think

566
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.359
is the first step. And truly you will figure it

567
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.519
out what it means for yourself. So as a leader,

568
00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:29.269
if I have a big presentation, our team has been

569
00:33:29.329 --> 00:33:32.309
working towards this big deadline and the presentation is end

570
00:33:32.349 --> 00:33:37.630
of day Wednesday, three o'clock. There's no meetings after that meeting.

571
00:33:38.490 --> 00:33:40.970
There might be a download. You know, we often do

572
00:33:41.049 --> 00:33:44.009
the reflection meeting, but it's built into the time for

573
00:33:44.029 --> 00:33:47.299
that meeting. There's not a meeting that's built into that

574
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.119
next hour after that. And there's no meetings that are

575
00:33:50.140 --> 00:33:54.880
scheduled for the following day. We are not kicking off

576
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:58.079
another big project the following day. We are building in

577
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:01.849
the time for recovery, for catch up, for people to

578
00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:04.369
do all of that work that they weren't doing because

579
00:34:04.390 --> 00:34:07.670
they were working towards this major deadline. And I'm telling

580
00:34:07.690 --> 00:34:10.110
you that they will figure out what that recovery looks

581
00:34:10.150 --> 00:34:11.769
like for them, but it's up to you as a

582
00:34:11.829 --> 00:34:14.940
leader to be protecting it for them. And when you

583
00:34:14.980 --> 00:34:18.900
demonstrate and say, hey, I've put this block on my calendar.

584
00:34:18.980 --> 00:34:20.239
I'm going to go to lunch and I'm going to

585
00:34:20.260 --> 00:34:23.059
take a walk. I'll check my emails when I get back.

586
00:34:24.449 --> 00:34:26.489
That's a big thing, I think, because a lot of

587
00:34:26.530 --> 00:34:30.530
leaders demonstrate the other way where they work themselves to

588
00:34:30.570 --> 00:34:33.710
the ground. And, you know, the leaders need to model

589
00:34:34.170 --> 00:34:37.780
the behavior of taking action. you take your vacation, you

590
00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:41.579
take your break and you'd fully shut off during those times.

591
00:34:41.619 --> 00:34:44.000
Like you're not available for email, you're not doing all

592
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:46.760
those things. So, you know, thank you for that because

593
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.550
I think that, you know, I, I wish that we could,

594
00:34:50.739 --> 00:34:53.130
we could talk to more leaders about the, the way

595
00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:58.210
that they can, I guess, adjust things to help not

596
00:34:58.309 --> 00:35:01.090
choose mediocrity. Like that's the thing you said. So it's so,

597
00:35:01.210 --> 00:35:03.269
it's so smart and it makes so much sense to me,

598
00:35:03.329 --> 00:35:06.110
but I think there's just a shift that doesn't happen there.

599
00:35:06.550 --> 00:35:10.010
And I'm wondering what advice you'd have. You already gave

600
00:35:10.050 --> 00:35:14.539
us one, but practically speaking, I think as the corporate

601
00:35:14.579 --> 00:35:17.800
world that we know and love, there's a lot of

602
00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.920
growth that can happen. And I wonder what practically leaders

603
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:25.780
can do. You said about the schedule and not booking

604
00:35:26.139 --> 00:35:28.219
meetings the next day and not moving too fast to

605
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.340
the next thing, but what else can leaders do to

606
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:34.449
really empower their teams instead of you know, encouraging working,

607
00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:36.090
working themselves into the ground.

608
00:35:36.489 --> 00:35:38.349
Yeah. One of the big things that I encourage people

609
00:35:38.369 --> 00:35:41.889
to do is that most people in some capacity own

610
00:35:42.969 --> 00:35:46.309
a calendar invite, whether you're a leader or you're an

611
00:35:46.369 --> 00:35:50.079
individual contributor, some point you own a calendar invite or

612
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:54.239
can influence a calendar invite. So whenever I meet with people,

613
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:57.780
I say, that's your very first homework assignment. And the

614
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.179
next half hour after we talk, I want you to

615
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.480
go and change one of the calendar invites. from 60

616
00:36:03.480 --> 00:36:07.360
minutes to 45 minutes, or from 60 minutes to 50.

617
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.989
If you don't feel like you can get to 45,

618
00:36:08.969 --> 00:36:11.829
we'll start with 50. Or if you have a 30

619
00:36:11.829 --> 00:36:17.590
minute meeting, change it to 25. Because oftentimes, again, we're

620
00:36:17.630 --> 00:36:20.909
in those meetings and we're living in a struggle. Very

621
00:36:20.989 --> 00:36:23.889
rarely do we get into group Group flow, you know,

622
00:36:23.909 --> 00:36:27.039
there's individual flow and group flow in an hour meeting, again,

623
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:29.519
because it takes 23 minutes to get into flow and

624
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.820
23 and, you know, to reset and get back. And

625
00:36:31.900 --> 00:36:33.579
when you get knocked out and in a lot of meetings,

626
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.239
we're getting knocked out quickly because we don't have clear priorities,

627
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:39.920
clear agenda, clear goals. So we're just living in struggle.

628
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:44.579
And by putting in a simple buffer of 10 to

629
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:49.320
15 minutes between meetings, anyone who has done it always

630
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.000
comes forward and said it was a game changer. Or

631
00:36:52.059 --> 00:36:53.400
they say, well, I used to do that in my

632
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:56.519
previous organization and I remember how great it was. I

633
00:36:56.559 --> 00:36:58.159
don't know why we don't do it here. And then

634
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:02.920
I say, you can do it. Change your meeting. So again,

635
00:37:03.460 --> 00:37:07.530
as leaders, we demonstrate by controlling our calendars. We can

636
00:37:07.590 --> 00:37:12.030
empower our teams to control their calendars and make these choices.

637
00:37:12.489 --> 00:37:16.250
And people will find what fills them in those reset moments.

638
00:37:16.650 --> 00:37:18.750
They may just need to go take a bathroom break.

639
00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:21.730
They may choose to go make a cup of coffee.

640
00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:25.469
They may choose to check an email, although I prefer

641
00:37:25.510 --> 00:37:27.550
that they're not doing that. I'd prefer that they're moving

642
00:37:27.630 --> 00:37:32.110
away from anything that's a more cognitive load, like truly encouraging,

643
00:37:32.489 --> 00:37:37.840
just step away and talk about it. I think sharing

644
00:37:37.909 --> 00:37:40.579
the vocabulary as a team, one of the things we

645
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.719
call them is team commitments, is that we are committed.

646
00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:46.360
For example, we are going to share a flow block

647
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:49.519
of two hours on this day at this time And

648
00:37:49.539 --> 00:37:53.659
we are turning off our notifications as a team. So again,

649
00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:57.559
a team agreement makes a huge difference that as again,

650
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:00.039
as I'm, as a leader, if I'm committed to that,

651
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.840
I know that my other team members can also see

652
00:38:02.889 --> 00:38:04.780
that and that they will treat each other that way.

653
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.550
It's interesting. I've seen so many leaders have a shift

654
00:38:07.969 --> 00:38:11.210
when they realize that when they're sending a message that

655
00:38:11.230 --> 00:38:13.670
they think they're being helpful in their communication to their

656
00:38:13.690 --> 00:38:17.090
team member, Then they're sending a message that they could

657
00:38:17.110 --> 00:38:19.750
have waited to send or share in the team meeting

658
00:38:19.849 --> 00:38:24.389
the next day. They will stop doing it because they're

659
00:38:24.429 --> 00:38:28.989
recognizing that they're actually impeding someone's ability to focus. When

660
00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:32.869
they thought, in fact, oh, I'm helping them. I'm communicating.

661
00:38:32.909 --> 00:38:35.250
I'm keeping them in the loop. And I'd say, is

662
00:38:35.289 --> 00:38:37.190
that something that could be covered in your one-on-one with

663
00:38:37.230 --> 00:38:41.070
them tomorrow? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So you're choosing to

664
00:38:41.250 --> 00:38:44.289
interrupt their time right now and knocking them out of

665
00:38:44.329 --> 00:38:49.889
their focus. Oh, gosh, I hadn't thought about it that way. Simple,

666
00:38:50.190 --> 00:38:52.929
simple steps. We think about that it has to be

667
00:38:52.969 --> 00:38:56.500
this major overhaul in how we're approaching work. This is

668
00:38:56.699 --> 00:39:01.880
incremental change. One of the things that happened at my

669
00:39:01.940 --> 00:39:05.860
previous organization at the public transportation was Again, we were

670
00:39:05.889 --> 00:39:07.940
working seven days a week and I was finding myself

671
00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:12.840
in back-to-back meetings, working nights and every weekend, not having

672
00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:15.219
the time. And you hear a lot of people share this,

673
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.139
not having the time to do my real job. I

674
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:21.449
think people, it's often that line. I don't have time

675
00:39:21.469 --> 00:39:24.469
to do my real work because I'm in meetings. So

676
00:39:25.989 --> 00:39:30.789
I had suggested to my C-suite colleagues, to say, what

677
00:39:30.809 --> 00:39:33.199
if we didn't meet on Fridays? You know, we don't

678
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:35.409
have too many meetings for them Fridays or so. So

679
00:39:35.449 --> 00:39:38.800
what if we just didn't do that? And they had

680
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:42.099
shared great concern. I don't think we can do that.

681
00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:45.530
So I went to my admin and And she went

682
00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:48.469
to the other admins who actually control the calendars and said,

683
00:39:48.590 --> 00:39:52.250
don't schedule anything on Fridays. Next thing you know, we

684
00:39:52.449 --> 00:39:56.159
didn't have meetings on Fridays and everybody was surviving and

685
00:39:57.260 --> 00:40:00.159
then realizing, oh gosh, I actually have time to do

686
00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:03.760
my work. So for me, it was a way where

687
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.349
I was, I knew I had positive intention around it.

688
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:09.940
And I was very aware that if there was going

689
00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:12.420
to be fallout, I would want to make a change back,

690
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.940
but there wasn't. And, and then when I share that

691
00:40:15.980 --> 00:40:19.619
story again, often people say, gosh, I remember my previous organization,

692
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:21.739
we didn't have meetings on Fridays and what a difference

693
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.099
it makes. Why don't we do that here? To which

694
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:25.860
I say, why don't you do that here?

695
00:40:27.909 --> 00:40:30.190
You know, it, it reminds me of the whole busy

696
00:40:30.250 --> 00:40:32.530
as a badge idea.

697
00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:33.190
100%.

698
00:40:33.190 --> 00:40:37.730
It just, you know, you said something so relatable, I

699
00:40:37.750 --> 00:40:39.670
think for so many people, which is that you can't,

700
00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:41.789
you know, you, you have these, you have a meet,

701
00:40:41.929 --> 00:40:45.389
you have a day of seven meetings. that all have

702
00:40:45.429 --> 00:40:48.730
takeaways and deliverables and then what? Like, and then, and

703
00:40:48.769 --> 00:40:50.650
then the next day you have the same day of

704
00:40:50.690 --> 00:40:52.869
seven meetings and there's more to it. And it just

705
00:40:52.929 --> 00:40:56.840
kind of like almost snowballs into a horribly like anxiety

706
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.380
ridden place. And I, I've lived it and I know how,

707
00:41:00.659 --> 00:41:02.880
you know, particularly what you said about the focus thing.

708
00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:06.460
I think that leaders, you know, could, could learn so

709
00:41:06.500 --> 00:41:09.500
much from that because there's something about, you know, being

710
00:41:09.619 --> 00:41:14.019
able to even, you know, piece things together in, in a,

711
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:16.400
you said 20, is it 23 minutes to.

712
00:41:16.340 --> 00:41:17.480
Get into 23 minutes?

713
00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:22.650
So every single time, like, cause I worked with a

714
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:27.530
leader that was very, very, very connected, which again, there's, there's,

715
00:41:27.550 --> 00:41:29.750
there's good, there's good there. That's a, that's not a

716
00:41:29.769 --> 00:41:31.710
bad thing. Like you said, like that comes from a

717
00:41:31.730 --> 00:41:35.550
good place. The intention is good, but it was constant

718
00:41:36.289 --> 00:41:39.929
and how Can anybody expect anybody to stay? And I

719
00:41:40.610 --> 00:41:44.769
air a little bit on the side of ADHD. I'm

720
00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:50.139
undiagnosed ADHD for sure. So knowing that, in addition to

721
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:53.739
just the average human taking 23 minutes to get into flow,

722
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:59.059
every single time you get distracted, that's your whole day.

723
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.760
That's why it doesn't happen. And that's why there's jokes

724
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.239
on social media about hashtag flow state because somebody is

725
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:08.050
organizing their spice drawer. but we don't think we can

726
00:42:08.090 --> 00:42:11.340
do it at work. It is so absurd. It is

727
00:42:11.420 --> 00:42:13.980
so absurd to me. And it is what is driving

728
00:42:14.059 --> 00:42:18.550
our exhaustion. And so, okay. You had also asked me again, if,

729
00:42:18.579 --> 00:42:21.559
you know, something to help a leader have a different

730
00:42:21.579 --> 00:42:28.900
perspective on it. When you recognize that again, burnout, exhaustion,

731
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:33.190
disengagement live at one end of the same stick. as

732
00:42:33.489 --> 00:42:37.300
flow and peak performance being and living as my best self,

733
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:44.119
that they are polar opposites. And if my best self

734
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:50.590
is over here, what is over here? Mediocrity. Yeah. And

735
00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:54.650
sometimes worse and you're choosing it. You get to choose

736
00:42:54.829 --> 00:42:59.590
which end of the stick you carry. That is powerful

737
00:42:59.659 --> 00:43:02.949
for me. And because of that, I choose to no

738
00:43:03.010 --> 00:43:05.909
longer deny my biology and my intuition.

739
00:43:08.190 --> 00:43:10.269
We all need to do that. Like we all, this,

740
00:43:10.389 --> 00:43:13.650
this is so important for people, you know, particularly like

741
00:43:13.710 --> 00:43:16.349
I just, I, I have, you know, a master's in

742
00:43:16.369 --> 00:43:19.849
psychology and I have a lot of passion around figuring

743
00:43:19.889 --> 00:43:21.889
out how to work with your brain. Cause all of

744
00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:24.630
our brains are very different and there's, you know, different

745
00:43:25.130 --> 00:43:27.809
tools and tricks we can all do to, to work

746
00:43:27.849 --> 00:43:31.030
better with what we're given. But I just think that

747
00:43:31.070 --> 00:43:33.650
this is such an important thing, you know, and you,

748
00:43:34.250 --> 00:43:36.469
one of the things that you you've mentioned a few times,

749
00:43:36.530 --> 00:43:39.349
that's super interesting to me is that the role that

750
00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:43.329
curiosity has played in all of this. And I am

751
00:43:43.409 --> 00:43:48.210
wondering like, how, how can curiosity change the way we

752
00:43:48.289 --> 00:43:51.849
lead live and relate to each other? Yeah.

753
00:43:54.349 --> 00:44:01.760
So as part of my great reassessment, um, We ended up, so, okay.

754
00:44:01.780 --> 00:44:03.690
So we, I resigned from my job on a Thursday.

755
00:44:03.710 --> 00:44:06.210
All right. Yeah. I had my panic attack on a Thursday,

756
00:44:06.269 --> 00:44:07.969
resigned from my job on a Monday and about a

757
00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:11.650
month and a half later, we moved from Ohio to Asheville,

758
00:44:11.690 --> 00:44:16.769
North Carolina for a six month adventure. And, uh, we

759
00:44:16.829 --> 00:44:21.559
had our, our 10, 11 year old daughter is 11

760
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:26.550
at the time. She is now 15. And, um, two

761
00:44:26.590 --> 00:44:30.849
suitcases each and rented an apartment. Talk about leading with

762
00:44:30.929 --> 00:44:35.119
curiosity and keeping that mindset of let's see what happens,

763
00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:38.440
see how this unfolds. I felt very called to this area.

764
00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:43.239
Asheville is known for having a bit of a vortex here,

765
00:44:46.969 --> 00:44:50.429
as well as allergies, hence the itchy throat. We're a

766
00:44:50.429 --> 00:44:52.789
little ahead of you all and we're here in North Carolina.

767
00:44:54.530 --> 00:44:58.260
and it is a place of peace and of reset

768
00:44:58.300 --> 00:45:02.780
that people choose to come here. On the way, on

769
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:05.639
the drive down with my daughter, my husband drove separately,

770
00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:08.679
my daughter and I listened to Jay Shetty's book, Think

771
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:14.039
Like a Monk, and one of the chapters, he provided

772
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.800
advice for us to have a much greater awareness of

773
00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:22.670
how we choose to see the world, to lead with

774
00:45:22.769 --> 00:45:26.489
greater positivity, he wanted us to be aware of three

775
00:45:26.610 --> 00:45:34.210
things that is comparing, complaining, and criticizing. So on his

776
00:45:34.309 --> 00:45:37.260
journey to becoming a monk, there was a week where

777
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.019
he had to log every time that he complained, that

778
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:47.360
he compared, or that he criticized. So being the person

779
00:45:47.380 --> 00:45:49.409
that I am, I immediately look at my daughter. I say,

780
00:45:49.420 --> 00:45:52.099
let's try it just for an hour. I think we

781
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:56.800
made it like seven minutes and all immediately something crept up.

782
00:45:57.739 --> 00:46:03.019
And it became an incredible tool for me to have

783
00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:08.070
that awareness of the words I was choosing, what I

784
00:46:08.110 --> 00:46:10.829
was thinking in my mind and having a daughter who

785
00:46:10.929 --> 00:46:15.050
is entering into teenagehood and the amount of comparison that

786
00:46:15.090 --> 00:46:20.019
takes place, the amount of negative self-talk of criticism. And

787
00:46:20.059 --> 00:46:22.639
quite frankly, the way that we live our lives, the

788
00:46:22.659 --> 00:46:27.059
amount of complaining that we all do, it has changed

789
00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:30.320
truly that moment in the car. And I think it's

790
00:46:30.340 --> 00:46:31.780
such a blessing because it was all part of my

791
00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:34.550
great reassessment and part of the drive to Asheville. And

792
00:46:34.929 --> 00:46:36.449
I think I forgot to mention, we've been here four

793
00:46:36.489 --> 00:46:39.389
and a half years now, that six months really kind

794
00:46:39.429 --> 00:46:42.869
of spanned out. But I needed to step back and

795
00:46:42.929 --> 00:46:46.130
I said, what do I want to replace that with?

796
00:46:46.289 --> 00:46:50.989
So for me, it came down to compassion, leading with

797
00:46:51.050 --> 00:46:57.800
care and kindness and curiosity. So instead of criticizing, I

798
00:46:57.860 --> 00:47:03.639
lead with curiosity. I ask, I wonder why. And even

799
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:07.500
in with raising our daughter and her talking about some

800
00:47:07.539 --> 00:47:09.760
of the behavior of the other kids at home, at

801
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:12.760
that school rather, I would ask her to lead with

802
00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:15.860
curiosity to say, where do you think they're learning these things?

803
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:18.739
Where do you think they learned that word that they

804
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:24.280
called you today? learning to lead with curiosity instead of judgment.

805
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:28.119
So you're releasing the judgment on it of being something

806
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:31.199
that's positive or negative and just coming through with neutrality.

807
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:35.630
That's what I see curiosity is. And for me, again,

808
00:47:35.730 --> 00:47:38.429
another big moment for me, it was a book came

809
00:47:38.469 --> 00:47:42.429
across my desk that is titled, um, am I being

810
00:47:42.489 --> 00:47:46.750
kind is a very, very simple title. And the author

811
00:47:46.869 --> 00:47:49.449
leads through the path of how he changed the way

812
00:47:49.489 --> 00:47:52.730
that he approaches his everyday and everyday actions with that

813
00:47:52.789 --> 00:47:56.699
simple question, am I being kind? So for me, again,

814
00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:01.119
I layer in my awareness of comparing, criticizing, and complaining

815
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.340
and choosing not to do that. And instead choosing to

816
00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:09.460
lead with curiosity, compassion, and care and ask myself, am

817
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:10.179
I being kind?

818
00:48:12.099 --> 00:48:14.219
What if the whole world did that? Can you imagine?

819
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:19.860
Like, wouldn't that be a beautiful place? And if we

820
00:48:19.900 --> 00:48:22.519
even look at it selfishly, it changes how I get

821
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:26.559
to live. I know that my actions then positively are

822
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:30.179
impacting others. But again, if I needed it just to

823
00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:34.929
be about me, I get to feel good. It really

824
00:48:35.070 --> 00:48:39.530
changes your energy when you remove and decide to step

825
00:48:39.630 --> 00:48:44.530
away from the negative and you decide to reframe And again,

826
00:48:44.570 --> 00:48:47.630
it doesn't have to be that you're choosing just positivity.

827
00:48:47.809 --> 00:48:50.610
It can be net neutral. It can be releasing the

828
00:48:50.659 --> 00:48:55.239
judgment and purely choosing curiosity. I will often say that

829
00:48:55.300 --> 00:48:59.739
if I find myself saying, I'm concerned about something, I

830
00:48:59.780 --> 00:49:02.400
will immediately say out loud, even if it was just

831
00:49:02.420 --> 00:49:04.320
in my head, I say, I'm really concerned about that.

832
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.360
I will say out loud, I am curious to see

833
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:12.440
how this will unfold. It neutralizes things.

834
00:49:15.550 --> 00:49:18.829
What's a conversation that people are avoiding that could change

835
00:49:18.889 --> 00:49:19.969
everything if they just hadn't?

836
00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:28.079
Admitting that it doesn't feel good the way that we're

837
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:32.980
choosing to work and live. Everyone I talk to when

838
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:35.679
I share my story says, oh my gosh, I feel

839
00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:38.570
the same way. I have yet to meet a person

840
00:49:38.949 --> 00:49:41.170
who said, gosh, I can't relate to that at all.

841
00:49:41.789 --> 00:49:44.429
At least they're not coming up to me. But most

842
00:49:44.489 --> 00:49:47.579
of the room is nodding their head. And yet we're

843
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:54.019
still choosing to normalize hustle culture and normalize burnout as

844
00:49:54.059 --> 00:49:57.059
the cost of doing business. When what I really want

845
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.059
organizations and leaders to understand is what they're leaving on

846
00:50:00.099 --> 00:50:06.050
the table. When we are not doing our best and

847
00:50:06.090 --> 00:50:08.789
we have an opportunity to not only to live our best,

848
00:50:08.829 --> 00:50:11.469
but to work our best. And then have the organization

849
00:50:11.510 --> 00:50:15.289
be its best. The World Health Organization has a stat

850
00:50:15.329 --> 00:50:17.949
that is for every dollar that we invest in the

851
00:50:18.010 --> 00:50:22.090
mental health of an employee, it's a four-time return. It's

852
00:50:22.329 --> 00:50:27.380
a $ 4 return. Who wouldn't take that? All of the

853
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:32.639
research is here. And I'm starting to see a difference.

854
00:50:33.019 --> 00:50:34.460
I will tell you, I feel like I'm seeing a

855
00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:38.710
shift in the last six months as AI has continued

856
00:50:38.750 --> 00:50:43.309
to just take over our conversations of what the impact

857
00:50:43.349 --> 00:50:45.750
of AI is going to be on our place and

858
00:50:45.809 --> 00:50:48.969
our work and our way of being, it is giving

859
00:50:49.030 --> 00:50:51.579
us much greater permission to talk about the value of

860
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:54.599
our humanity. So I'm starting to see us starting to

861
00:50:54.639 --> 00:50:56.679
talk about it because at the end of the day,

862
00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:00.599
what I also want organizations to understand is that your people,

863
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:03.929
their humanity is all you will have left to differentiate.

864
00:51:04.590 --> 00:51:07.150
Everything else is going to be a commodity. And so

865
00:51:07.190 --> 00:51:11.139
what is humanity? Humanity is our ability to build connections,

866
00:51:11.420 --> 00:51:16.019
to build relationships. And so much of humanity is storytelling.

867
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:20.530
That's how we build connections and relationships. In order to

868
00:51:20.650 --> 00:51:23.869
do that, we have to have the energy to do that.

869
00:51:24.590 --> 00:51:27.610
Because when I'm feeling heavy, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, I've shared,

870
00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:31.309
I even lose my ability for word finding. That is

871
00:51:31.349 --> 00:51:34.179
the ultimate example of me not being able to drive

872
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:42.460
connection and relationships and deliver storytelling. Because my exhaustion. So organizations, leaders,

873
00:51:42.699 --> 00:51:46.760
I want them to wake up and understand that protecting

874
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:52.579
their associates, their team members, human energy is actually their

875
00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:57.139
performance strategy. It's not their future performance strategy. It is

876
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:00.590
right now because one or two years from now, it's

877
00:52:00.659 --> 00:52:01.730
all going to be a commodity.

878
00:52:01.750 --> 00:52:06.550
I think you just answered it already. But I have

879
00:52:06.590 --> 00:52:09.789
this question that I ask people, which is if you

880
00:52:09.809 --> 00:52:13.769
had a megaphone and everybody had to listen to your message,

881
00:52:14.269 --> 00:52:14.829
what would it be?

882
00:52:15.789 --> 00:52:21.289
Stop settling for mediocrity. We have one opportunity at this

883
00:52:22.110 --> 00:52:27.820
one lifetime. We can live our best. Both people and

884
00:52:27.949 --> 00:52:33.159
organizations can thrive together. I am.

885
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.860
I am struggling a little bit because everything you're saying

886
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:41.750
is resonating so deeply for me that I don't even,

887
00:52:41.849 --> 00:52:44.909
I'm having a hard time generating questions because I just

888
00:52:45.010 --> 00:52:50.409
feel like your message and your energy and your life

889
00:52:50.449 --> 00:52:55.590
story are so real right now. And people need to

890
00:52:56.380 --> 00:53:00.019
lean in. And I think that there's so much to

891
00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:03.320
be learned from everything that you've gone through. One last

892
00:53:03.340 --> 00:53:06.820
question that I have that I'm really curious about is

893
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:12.039
how you, what you learned, what's the most important thing

894
00:53:12.059 --> 00:53:15.960
that you learned from going through this exhaustion and having

895
00:53:15.980 --> 00:53:20.179
this burnout that achievement couldn't have taught you?

896
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:38.030
Are, Ability to follow our intuition as humans is truly

897
00:53:38.110 --> 00:53:42.920
our greatest gift. We choose to deny it over and

898
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:48.860
over again. But to be living in the ultimate success,

899
00:53:49.699 --> 00:53:52.030
you have to be in alignment with your intuition. So

900
00:53:53.110 --> 00:53:57.530
stop hushing that whisper that's inside of you. Turn down

901
00:53:57.570 --> 00:54:00.190
the rest of the noise and be willing to sit

902
00:54:00.230 --> 00:54:04.659
in it. be willing to be still and hear the

903
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:09.300
things that you've been denying and take the risk. I

904
00:54:09.340 --> 00:54:12.750
talk about for me, I have been willing to take

905
00:54:12.809 --> 00:54:15.989
the jumps all my life. I look back at my career.

906
00:54:16.769 --> 00:54:19.929
Sometimes I've stayed at organizations one to two years, sometimes

907
00:54:20.010 --> 00:54:23.340
four years, and it often looks like a career pivot.

908
00:54:23.550 --> 00:54:26.099
It looks like a jump and it became because I

909
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:31.460
chose to follow my intuition and The biggest moments in

910
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:35.300
my life have been the greatest resets and I call

911
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:41.150
those the quantum leaps. And I feel so blessed that

912
00:54:41.469 --> 00:54:47.010
I have the opportunity to be led by something that

913
00:54:47.070 --> 00:54:52.949
is greater than myself, to have the opportunity to turn

914
00:54:53.050 --> 00:54:59.179
down the outside noise and be grounded in what I

915
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:04.090
call my knowing I'll have things that happen where I

916
00:55:04.170 --> 00:55:08.409
think to myself, I wonder if. I think that in

917
00:55:08.449 --> 00:55:10.510
my head. I can see it as a sentence. I

918
00:55:10.590 --> 00:55:14.550
wonder if. And I have learned that my I wonder

919
00:55:14.769 --> 00:55:20.989
ifs are actual statements. They're actual proclamations. I wonder if

920
00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:24.719
I should resign from this job. I wonder if I

921
00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:27.480
should go across the room and talk to that person

922
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:34.239
right now. I have chosen... to translate that into guidance

923
00:55:36.219 --> 00:55:41.980
and to trust that everything will work out for the best.

924
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:48.030
One of the big things I do is reframe. So

925
00:55:48.090 --> 00:55:51.610
as part of the journey here, we had the opportunity

926
00:55:51.630 --> 00:55:55.849
to purchase a home that had been unattended to for

927
00:55:55.869 --> 00:55:58.909
about 15 years on a mountainside. We have 300 acres

928
00:55:58.929 --> 00:56:03.159
behind us. that are owned by the Vanderbilt property. And just,

929
00:56:03.980 --> 00:56:07.239
we have had numerous visits from the bears all week.

930
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:13.739
It's really neat and all the wild turkeys. And a couple,

931
00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:15.150
I think it took us about a year and a

932
00:56:15.190 --> 00:56:18.110
half to fully renovate. I put the paintbrushes down or

933
00:56:18.150 --> 00:56:21.030
we put the paintbrushes down on a Friday. So much

934
00:56:21.070 --> 00:56:24.230
more to that story. But you can imagine a mountain

935
00:56:24.269 --> 00:56:26.570
home that hadn't been unattended to for 15 years. There

936
00:56:26.610 --> 00:56:28.030
was a lot more to do than what was in

937
00:56:28.070 --> 00:56:33.110
that original that original book from the inspector. So the

938
00:56:33.130 --> 00:56:36.130
first tree fell on July 4th. The second tree fell

939
00:56:36.190 --> 00:56:38.909
on August 7th, condemning the home after we had just

940
00:56:38.929 --> 00:56:44.909
completed the remodel. And one of my, after I got

941
00:56:44.969 --> 00:56:50.469
over the shock and the overwhelm, because I also was

942
00:56:50.510 --> 00:56:53.949
feeling like I'm putting my family through this, you know,

943
00:56:54.070 --> 00:56:58.550
putting them through the discomfort for my own passion and joy.

944
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:03.760
And here we go again. I immediately realized.

945
00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:05.780
There were a lot of neat places around Asheville that

946
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:11.650
I had wanted to explore before we settled here and said,

947
00:57:12.050 --> 00:57:15.389
we went on a six-month adventure before, let's do it again.

948
00:57:16.730 --> 00:57:20.590
We packed our suitcases and we went and stayed at

949
00:57:20.630 --> 00:57:25.750
various Airbnbs for few months, which ended up, it ended

950
00:57:25.789 --> 00:57:28.739
up being nine months to rebuild. We ended up finding

951
00:57:28.780 --> 00:57:32.320
another more permanent Airbnb home, but we made an adventure

952
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:36.920
of it. And the rebuild was even better than the

953
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:45.550
first time around. I knew again, relatively quickly afterwards that again,

954
00:57:45.690 --> 00:57:48.670
out of this darkness was going to come lightness. And

955
00:57:48.750 --> 00:57:52.449
so I think That idea of that resilience that I

956
00:57:52.489 --> 00:57:57.800
have in me is also one of great optimism and

957
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:02.639
the ability to see the good in the moment and knowing, again,

958
00:58:02.699 --> 00:58:06.920
having great faith that good will come of this. That

959
00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:10.000
is a really important part for my life and is

960
00:58:10.039 --> 00:58:12.619
a big part of my quantum leaps of growth and

961
00:58:12.659 --> 00:58:17.300
of opportunities is knowing that everything will work out as it.

962
00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:17.900
Is meant to be.

963
00:58:19.300 --> 00:58:22.860
Good will come of this. Like that is actually a

964
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:25.440
mantra of mine. I have a few, and that is

965
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:30.030
legitimately something that I've, I've said to myself more times

966
00:58:30.050 --> 00:58:31.949
than I'd be, you know, more times than I want

967
00:58:31.969 --> 00:58:36.099
to admit, honestly, good will come of this. Dr. Alexis,

968
00:58:36.179 --> 00:58:38.599
thank you for your time and your energy and for

969
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:41.460
pouring into me and for pouring into my listeners and

970
00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:44.559
viewers today. I am so deeply grateful for your story

971
00:58:44.619 --> 00:58:48.010
and your vulnerability and your transparency. And I want to ask,

972
00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:50.469
where can people find you? How can they support you?

973
00:58:50.650 --> 00:58:52.610
And is there anything going on in your world that

974
00:58:52.650 --> 00:58:53.929
people should know about right now?

975
00:58:54.369 --> 00:58:58.510
Yeah. So our organization is 5toFlow, and it's as easy

976
00:58:58.570 --> 00:59:06.489
as 5toflow. com, spelled out F-I-V-E-T-O-F-L-O-W.com. I've also launched my own

977
00:59:06.570 --> 00:59:09.969
platform for my forthcoming book, which is called From Burnout

978
00:59:10.099 --> 00:59:13.019
to Becoming Light that I'm thrilled to be sharing in

979
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:19.650
the coming year. And my website is becominglight.life. So a

980
00:59:19.690 --> 00:59:22.969
new ending. So pay attention to that. It's dot L-I-F-E.

981
00:59:23.150 --> 00:59:26.050
I think it's very appropriate. And then you can find

982
00:59:26.110 --> 00:59:33.619
me on LinkedIn, Dr. Alexis Yamakoski spelled Y-A-M-O-K-O-S-K-I. Beautiful.

983
00:59:33.659 --> 00:59:36.119
Thank you so much again. And we'll see you next

984
00:59:36.179 --> 00:59:37.699
time on Quick Before You Forget.

985
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:39.739
All right. Thank you so much, Ty.

986
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:43.780
Thank you for being here with me today on Quick

987
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:47.130
Before You Forget. Please like, share, and subscribe as that

988
00:59:47.190 --> 00:59:50.110
helps the show so much and I really appreciate it.

989
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:53.099
And I'll see you next time on Quick Before You Forget.