June 1, 2026

Lead Bigger: The Power of Human Connection with Anne Chow

Lead Bigger: The Power of Human Connection with Anne Chow

The most powerful force in leadership, and in life, isn't strategy, intelligence, authority, or reps. It's human connection. In this episode of Quick Before You Forget, I sit down with my friend Anne Chow, transformational leader, former CEO of...

The most powerful force in leadership, and in life, isn't strategy, intelligence, authority, or reps.

It's human connection.

In this episode of Quick Before You Forget, I sit down with my friend Anne Chow, transformational leader, former CEO of AT&T Business, bestselling author of Lead Bigger, and founder of The Rewired CEO.

Anne was the first woman of color CEO in AT&T's 140+ year history, but what makes her extraordinary isn't her title. It's her belief that leadership is a choice available to every single one of us.

Together, we explore what it means to lead bigger, why relationships are the foundation of meaningful impact, the (not-so) surprising lessons leaders can learn from orchestra conductors, and how curiosity, kindness, and courage can transform both our careers and our lives.

We also talk about music, mixtapes, friendship, purpose, and the conversations that change us forever. Because sometimes the biggest leadership lesson is remembering that people matter.

And that includes you.

Memorable Moments

00:00 — Cold Open: What does it mean to "Lead Bigger"? Anne's powerful definition of inclusive leadership.

01:00 — Meet Anne Chow: Former CEO of AT&T Business and author of Lead Bigger

02:00 — The leadership lessons Anne learned from her father and immigrant upbringing

04:00 — How Anne's definition of leadership evolved from age 15 to today

05:00 — "Leadership is a choice": Anne's philosophy on influence, impact, and purpose

08:00 — Why leadership is both an art and a science

09:00 — The hidden power of communication: the what, why, how, and when

12:00 — What orchestra conductors can teach us about great leadership

14:00 — The conductor analogy that completely changed Anne's view of leadership

19:00 — Mixtapes, Spotify Wrapped, and the soundtrack of Anne Chow's life

22:00 — Anne's "songs of survival" and the music that lifts her up

24:00 — The Most Powerful Force in the World (Hint: It's Not Technology)

25:00 — Building trust, relationships, and meaningful connection at work

27:00 — Helping people see their potential before they see it themselves

29:00 — Motivation vs. Inspiration: Why One Creates Lasting Change

32:00 — Curiosity, humility, and why leaders must learn how to ask better questions

36:00 — The biggest leadership myth holding people back today

37:00 — Why Kindness and High Performance Are Not Opposites

38:00 — Widening your perspective for greater performance and impact

40:00 — The one question every leader should ask themselves every day

41:00 — What Anne had to unlearn to become a bigger leader

43:00 — From retirement to "rewirement": designing a life with intention

45:00 — Friendship February, slowing down, and making time for what matters most

47:00 — What Anne would tell her 22-year-old self

48:00 — "There's no such thing as failure, only success and learning."

49:00 — Chow-isms: Anne's favorite life and leadership mantra

50:00 — Helping people discover their gifts and calling

51:00 — One Conversation Can Change a Life

53:00 — The Story Anne Didn't Know She Was Part Of

55:00 — Anne's response, the power of technology, and words that endure for generations

55:45 — Where to find Anne Chow and connect with her work

Connect with Anne

Website: https://www.theannechow.com/

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/annehchow/?skipRedirect=true

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theannechow/

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My definition of leading bigger, which is synonymous with leading inclusively,

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is widening your perspective for greater performance and impact. So

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I'll say that one more time, widening your perspective for

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greater performance and impact. Now in a world that is

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more interconnected now than it has ever been, it yet

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feels more polarized than divided. I wholeheartedly believe that the

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successful leaders of today and the leaders of tomorrow must

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learn to and master leading inclusively.

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Ann Chow, Welcome to quick before you forget.

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Thank you so much time. It's great to be here

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with you.

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I am so excited you're here. And Anne and I

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have known each other for years, but I can't wait

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for you to meet everybody, for all of you to

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meet Anne and get to know her story a little

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bit better. So. Anne is a transformational leader, business leader,

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board director, and the former CEO of AT and T Business,

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where she was the first woman of color CEO in

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the company's one hundred and forty year history. She's the

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author of Lead Bigger, a powerful call for leaders to

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expand their capacity for impact, inclusion, and courage. And Anne

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is known for blending sharp business acumen with deeply human

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leadership challenging all of us to rethink what it really

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means to lead today. We're here to learn together from

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her story and what that looks like is walking a

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bit through your past, present and future. Are you ready

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for that?

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Yeah? Absolutely, take me where you want to take me.

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Thank you. Well, let's start in the rear view mirror

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with a focus forward. Who is someone who had a

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profound impact on the trajectory of your life as a leader,

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and what lesson or concept do you want to pay

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forward from that?

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Yeah, so this one's easy, you know, perhaps a little

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bit cliche, but very much true.

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In my case.

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Is the most inspirational person in my life has been

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my father. My parents were immigrants. They came to the

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United States in the nineteen sixties to pursue the American dream.

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They came from their native country of Taiwan, and I

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was born here, my brother was born here, and they

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poured everything into us. And so my dad has always

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been my hero. He said, we passed away just it

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was at the end of twenty twenty four, so still

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fairly recent. But for me, my dad embodied integrity character.

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My brother and I often called him a saint. He

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was driven just by goodness and by his deep caring

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for always doing the right thing. In addition to that,

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he was just funny, brilliant, and just an all around

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amazing person. And I learned from him that leadership isn't

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about a position or a title, that it is really

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about how you interact and work with and build relationships

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with people. And that was just such a fundamental lesson

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that I didn't even know I was learning from when

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I was very very young.

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I love that. And I remember when your dad passed.

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It was it was very hard to see the emotions

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of everything because I lost my father at twenty three,

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and I know how much your dad meant to you.

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So it's beautiful that he can live on through your

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words and your legacy and your leadership. And you know,

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I'm guessing that he taught you some things when you

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were younger that maybe have evolved kind of over time.

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So if I asked your fifteen year old self, like

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if you went back and asked your fifteen year old

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self what leadership meant, what would that look like and

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how does it compare to what it looks like for

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you now?

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Yeah, I think you're when you're a teenager at least

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when I was a teenager, which is really really really

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long time ago, what I thought about leadership was really

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much more traditional. Right. It was, Hey, you're the leader

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of the student council if you have a tie, like

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if you're the president of the student council or vice

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president of the student council. You're the leader of the team,

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if you were the captain of the team. Right. You

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were the leader of the classroom, if you were the teacher,

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or if you were the teacher's pet who happened to

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have a particular role in the classroom. And so back then,

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for me, leadership was much more traditional. It was a

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stated or implicit role that you had, and it it

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almost de facto gave you power and authority an influence

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over others. Right. So it's pretty I think it's a

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pretty typical teenage view of leadership, right, and we see

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it all around us in all different industries and different

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forms of media. Fast forward many, many, many many decades

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to today, I have very very strong conviction about leadership.

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In fact, leadership is one of the reasons why I

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think I'm on this earth. I fancy myself a lifelong

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student and practitioner of leadership.

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I believe leadership is a choice.

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In fact, this is one of my foundational leadership beliefs

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that led to me writingly bigger that leadership belief that

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leadership is a choice, That it is not a position.

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It is not a title.

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Yes, it can be made easier with a title or

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a position, but it is not synonymous with having a

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title or position. Leadership also has no gender, no race,

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no height, no weight, no culture, no skin color, no religion,

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no politics. And leadership, when you think about it, it

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is the one thing that transcends everything and it is

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one thing that's required to advance progress of all kinds. Now, tie,

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you and your audience may be wondering and well, what

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is your definition of leadership? Because there are infinite definitions

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of leadership. This is what it means for me. So,

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leadership is this ability to align a group of people,

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to motivate them, to inspire them to get something done,

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to execute towards a common goal, something that's greater than themselves.

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Right.

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So leadership is the ability to do that, and leadership

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is also the set of actions that are required to

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get that done. So it's not just the ability, it

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is the set of execute actions that actually execute against

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that definition, which is really all about the people and

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all about outcomes. And as you pause for a moment

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and consider my thoughts about leadership transcending, it is leadership

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that has advanced progress, whether it's technological progress, a sidle progress,

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environmental progress, economic progress, political progress, whatever the case may be,

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you always need leadership, right and so so that's what

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leadership is for me today, and it is both art

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and science, and it is a continuous practice. I don't

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believe that anybody is ever done being a leader.

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I don't believe that anybody.

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Is ever sort of finished mastering becoming, you know, becoming

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a leader. I think we're constantly becoming even greater than

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who we were yesterday. And I view the same thing

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about leadership.

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Thank you for that. You said something powerful about how

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is it art and a science?

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Yes?

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And I want to, I guess double click on that,

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because what does that look like practically? I feel I

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feel like that's a that's a very that's just something

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that we all kind of like understand it like this level,

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but at like a practical, everyday in real life level,

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like how do how do you translate that?

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Yeah?

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Yeah, yeah, So one of the questions I asked OFTENTI

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is what are the you know, what what are key

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characteristics that I look for in great leaders? Right? And

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I've gotten this question from some of my people before,

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my mentees others, or my students others. So you know,

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there are a couple of characteristics that I would point out,

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one being character another one being competence, another one being collaboration,

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the ability to collaborate. Let's let's take one of my

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most important characteristics about being a great leader, which is communication. Right,

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So we would all we would all acknowledge, right, that

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being able to communicate well right, is a skill that is.

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Required for great leadership. Right.

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There is a science about communicating right, both in oral

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form in real time like we're doing today, right, or

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perhaps asynchronously right if I record a webinar or have

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some other video sort of recording that is not real time.

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But then there's also the written word, right, and then

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the graphic and creative word in the world of media. Right.

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There are many different ways and modalities to communicate. So

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it makes sense that the more modalities you learn and use,

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the more people you will have the opportunity to communicate with.

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Right. There are some people who never read their emails.

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Right. There are some people who are who have the

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bulk of their professional conversations on LinkedIn, Right, So it

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all varies. Now, the art of communication lies not simply

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in the science of communication, meaning the what, It is

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in the how, which is where so much the art

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comes in. In fact, one of the things that I

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cover in some of my keynotes and also with some

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of my clients is that oftentimes, and in times of

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great let's say, crisis and pressure, which is frequently in

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the world of business today, is not.

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So focused on the what we for we communicate, right.

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We absolutely have to get through this crisis. Now, this

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is what we have to do. This is you know

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what our purpose is we what suffers is the how,

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the why, and the when, which.

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Is part of the art of communication.

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Right. If I have something really important to tell you,

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but you have a set of other priorities, personal and

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professional that are taking your mind share, you may be

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physically present here with me, but you are not mentally

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or emotionally present here with me.

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Right, And the art.

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Of communication has me realizing and learning that and deciding,

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you know what, this is not the right time for

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me to engage with ty on the on the what

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because she's not going to engage me with me, she

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won't hear me in the way that I need her

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to hear me, right, And so communication also involves the how,

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the why, and the when you know, and that is

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part of the art of it. And there is no

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one right formula because every communication, every interaction, whether planned

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or serendipitous, is going to require all those things. Right,

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It's going to require the what, why, how, and when

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and sometimes we can't plan for that. But communication is

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just something. It's one of those skills that you will

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always have an opportunity to refine, like leadership. So that

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is an example of the science of communication, right when

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we talk about the different modalities and the what we

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want to communicate, But then the art comes in in

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the context, in the tone, in the delivery, in the timing,

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right in the rationale and the strategic context of the

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what does that make sense?

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Yeah?

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And it actually reminds me of one of the coolest

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Instagram posts that I've seen you do. You do a

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lot of fun, very personal but also value add posts

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on Instagram that I love to follow your content and

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back on I think early January you posted something about

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you were at a symphony, I believe, and there was

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a conductor that was inspiring to you as a leader.

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Can you walk me through a little bit of your

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thinking around, you know, being a conductor, of your life,

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of your team, of how you view that.

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Yeah, absolutely so, Ty, I'll have to go. I have

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to rewind the rewind a mixtape, if you will, just

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to show that I am an old gen xer. I

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still have some of those mixtapes, even though I have

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nothing to play them on. They're just too emotionally bonded

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to me. But let me rewind the mixtape a little bit.

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And I thought when I was younger that I was

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going to be a professional musician. So I actually went

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to music school. I went to the Juilliard Pre College

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Division in New York City for about I guess it

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was seven years, from the ages ten through seventeen, and

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I studied classical piano.

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And during that time.

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I would you know, I had many opportunities to perform

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in different places, you know, along with some orchestras, you know,

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doing the various conchurdios and.

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Things like that.

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And I was always fascinated by the conductors, and it

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was just this both both when I would see them

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perform or practice or rehearse with their orchestras, as well

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as those who were studying you know, conducting as their major,

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if you will. So fast forward to adult me, and

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I've decided to abandon my dreams of being a musician,

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of being a professional musician, which were very wise. By

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the way, I was okay, but I was not great,

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And I learned that conducting is an incredible parallel to leadership.

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Let me explain.

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When you think about a conductor, they are intensely focused

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on their orchestra, right, They are intensely focused on the

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orchestra as a whole, but every section in the orchestra,

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the woodwinds, the brass, the percussion, right, the string. In

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addition to that, they also work with individuals right, so

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they have a first chair or second chair, first seat,

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second seat, and when they're performing, their objective is to

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both bring out the best in each individual musician in

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the orchestra, but most importantly, bring out the best of

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the whole orchestra as one integrated unit or team. What

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I think is one of the most compelling analogies is

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the conductor the entire time has his or her their

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back to the audience. They know that they're deliverable. Their

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output to the audience is the music which is being

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delivered through their people. It is not about them at all.

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It is about their people and literally the music that

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they are making together. Now, in leadership, the parallels are

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you know, I'm hoping that you and your audience t

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see the direct parallels with this.

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In leaderships, it's the same thing, right.

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A leader seeks to get the best out of every

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individual on their team, but also has to optimize the

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overall performance of their team. And as your leadership roles grow,

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you're dealing with more and more teams who have to

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work in concert together very much pun intended, right, and

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the objective is to deliver an outcome and impact that

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is so profound that everyone absolutely acknowledges that this was

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an incredible team of people who delivered incredible results and

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performance that served customers, that serve shareholders, that serve this

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moment in time in terms of creation of value in

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a way that has never.

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Been done before.

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Right, And I'll give you I'll give you another example

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of what right, the what here the science and the art.

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So in music, the what is the musical score. Right,

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it's the musical piece, now, ty, you and I could

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look at the same exact musical piece by Mozart, Beethoven, whoever,

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and in your case, Taylor Swift, because I know you're

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a big swift ye, and we would see it. We

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would be looking at the same exact musical score. However

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you would interpret it and play it one way. I

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would interpret it and play it another way. Right, And

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that is the beauty of the conductor's role, right, is

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how do I work with you tie to get the

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most beautiful music out of you on this same score

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that Anne has. But then Anne's interpretation of that score

286
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is going to be different. But yet, how do I

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get the most out of her to deliver the most

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beautiful piece of music that's possible? In business, it's the

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strategy and it's the plan. Right, You and I and

290
00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.039
another team could be looking at the same big strategy

291
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and the same egg plan. But how we execute against

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it will be directly a function of how good we

293
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are as individuals, how good we are as a trusted team,

294
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how strong our relationships are both one to one and

295
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one to many. Right, And even though the strategy on paper,

296
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the plan on paper. The performance objectives on paper will

297
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be the same. How we get there and whether we

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get there will be a lot of the art. So

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it is both science and art together. And so for me,

300
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i've i've I've always been fascinated by by conductors. And

301
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then the Instagram post just for your audience to anchor

302
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.799
on the post itself. A couple of years ago, I

303
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:48.759
had this opportunity to participate in a fundraiser for the

304
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Dalla Symphony Orchestra, and this was a fundraiser that they

305
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did at holod time, the holiday time. A couple of

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times they did it, and so they would seek business

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leaders in the community of business leaders.

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I think maybe it's four or.

309
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:06.319
Six maybe business leaders, no musical background required, and they

310
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bring us in to conduct a piece of music in

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their year end Christmas program. And so one of the

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years I did it and it was and by the way, again,

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you didn't you didn't need to learn music, you just

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learned the movements. Right now, fortunately I can read music,

315
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although I wasn't necessarily really conducting because the orchestra could

316
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have gone on auto plia. But the experience for me

317
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was oh and the video and the video I post

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was actually an excerpt from my rehearsal. Was just it

319
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was like a full circle moment for me that I

320
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will I will never forget. And I just think it's

321
00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:48.720
so funny because afterwards after the concert, you know, during

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the reception, people would say, wow, you were really getting

323
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into it or you know, it really looked like what

324
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you were doing right, And I was telling them that

325
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Orchestra could have, you know, basically bozled the clown in

326
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front of them or Mickey or anyone, and they could

327
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have done what they did. They they made us look good,

328
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but it was still it was still just a sort

329
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of bucket list moment for me to be able to

330
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even do it and be in the concert hall and

331
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just it was. It was just incredible. So I'm grateful

332
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:16.359
for that opportunity.

333
00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:19.519
Thank you for sharing that story. I think that's so

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much fun and such a cool glimpse into Like you said,

335
00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:27.359
it was a full circle moment, and I I love

336
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:31.680
that story. And I can't help but get curious about

337
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.319
what is on and Child's mixtape, Like I need to

338
00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.400
know like what I like, you said mixtape and I'm

339
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.799
you're you're talking my language, but what is what is on? There,

340
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.759
and I don't care if it's a cassette tape because

341
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:45.839
you know, we can we can burn CDs. Still maybe

342
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:47.799
I don't even know if you can anymore. But what

343
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is on and Chiles mixtape?

344
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Okay? Well today today?

345
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And well back then it would be like a bunch

346
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:53.839
of stuff from the you know, from the eighties and

347
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.519
the seventies. But now now, now I would say, now,

348
00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.559
I would say, what is on my Spotify playlist?

349
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.119
Yes, let's go, what's I and just my playlist?

350
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.240
Well, I don't know if you use Spotify, but one

351
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:06.720
of the things that I love this was actually another

352
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.960
post that I did or Spotify.

353
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Does this year end rap.

354
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So yeah, they put a playlist together of all of

355
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.640
your most listened songs and they.

356
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.519
Give you your listening age. Okay, it's old. Were you?

357
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:23.839
Oh, it's it's unbelievable. This it's so I loved what

358
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:28.839
they did because it's so personal and so customized. I mean,

359
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.440
I give them a huge shout out for just engaging

360
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.359
their customer base in this way because they were for

361
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:38.160
probably two whole weekends. That's all we were talking about,

362
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.920
both in business and personal settings. Right, what's your Spotify age?

363
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:43.119
What's the most listened song?

364
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.359
You know?

365
00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:45.720
What was your most listened to song? Right, you know,

366
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:47.680
and just getting a huge chuckle out of it. So

367
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:52.240
my Spotify age I think was thirty one. And I

368
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.559
think the most listened song that I that I played

369
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:58.519
this past year in twenty twenty five was I want

370
00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:00.640
to say this probably cold Play. It was a song

371
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.200
from Coldplay. So but that, but that has that has

372
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.039
largely varied. So what's on my playlist all the time?

373
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:11.599
I think a good rendition of my playlists are the

374
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.920
greatest hits right wherever? I have downloaded the greatest hits

375
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.480
of Blank So I have the greatest hits of the

376
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:21.039
Food Fighters. I have the greatest hits of Red Hot

377
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.279
Chili Peppers. I have the greatest hits of cold Play.

378
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:25.559
I have the greatest hits of One Republic. I have

379
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.759
the greatest hits of Queen. I have the greatest hits

380
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.640
of Journey. So I have a I have the greatest

381
00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:36.759
hits of New Order of the Cure of this is

382
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.960
you know, this is like really really dating meat depeche

383
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.759
Mode and echoing the Bunny Mine. This is like all

384
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:46.960
my eighties clubbing stuff. So so my playlist is quite diverse,

385
00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.240
like I like to think how I've led my life

386
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:50.119
to this point.

387
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:52.519
I love it. I feel like I would love to

388
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.559
hear your play, like honestly, there's a lot of there's

389
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:55.839
a lot of good stuff in there, and like you said,

390
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.519
a lot of diversity, which is really fun. Do you

391
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.119
do you have one song in particular And I know

392
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:03.640
obviously this this may change with time, but do you

393
00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:06.640
have one song in particular that you turn to in

394
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.519
like a hard time to like ground yourself. I call

395
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:12.079
it my song of survival? Do you have a song

396
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:12.359
like that?

397
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:15.079
I don't have one song I have.

398
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:19.480
I would say I have certain songs that will lift

399
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.039
me up or that I just I just super enjoy

400
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:25.200
So food Fighters happens to be in my favorite band,

401
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.599
and so I you know, I will listen to times

402
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.279
like these, uh every one song and that there was

403
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:36.240
actually this celebrity mashup they did during COVID that was

404
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:36.799
so moving.

405
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:37.960
Have you seen it? Yes?

406
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.039
Yes, so good.

407
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:41.720
It's so it's so good right it head do a

408
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:42.279
leap by there.

409
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:44.559
I mean there's just so you know, and you know

410
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:47.519
the the late Tiller Hawkins of course, but so that's

411
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:49.519
a favorite one. Another food Fighter was. One that's a

412
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:51.599
favorite is Learned to Fly. That one's always just such

413
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:56.400
a you know, uplifting song. Let me think you know,

414
00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:58.559
could play Viva la vida, right, I mean just there's

415
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:01.480
so many So there are certain songs, certain.

416
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:05.319
Artists that will always lift me up.

417
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:09.400
Well. I love shining the spotlight on people whose hard

418
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.519
work has an impact in our life, and those musicians

419
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.200
are like part of part of our world, you know.

420
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.480
I music, as you know, is a pretty fundamental thing

421
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.079
in my world. It just it touches parts of your

422
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.440
brain and your heart that words can't. And I just

423
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.319
I just love that, like you said, like it can

424
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.160
reach you in different ways, and it touches different people.

425
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.480
And you know, the same piece of music might say

426
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.960
one thing to one person and another thing to another person.

427
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.640
And I think that's there's so much beauty in that.

428
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:39.559
So thank you for sharing some of your music taste

429
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:41.880
with me. I'm so I'm so excited about that. So

430
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:43.680
I'm gonna check out your play You got to share

431
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:48.079
your Spotify playlist. So one of the things that you

432
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:50.799
to take things back a little bit toward leadership. You know,

433
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.160
we talked about we were just shining the spotlight on

434
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.559
some of the people that we are you know, we

435
00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.440
fan over a little bit, but I feel like one

436
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.319
of the things that I read a lot with about

437
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:05.599
your topic of your conversations around leadership is shining the

438
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:09.039
spotlight on people who deserve it. What do you see

439
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:13.279
in others before they see it in themselves?

440
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:14.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

441
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:20.240
So for me, I have a deep rooted belief that

442
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:24.000
the most powerful thing in the world is the power

443
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.359
of human connection. And when I started, you know, as

444
00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:33.599
a professional in the workforce, I had an intellectual understanding

445
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:36.240
about what relationships were, right.

446
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.720
I had friends, had family, you.

447
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:42.880
Know, had professional relationships in the sense of teachers and tas.

448
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:43.160
And things like that.

449
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.759
But I really didn't know how to port that into

450
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:51.240
the workforce over time. And really this is actually the

451
00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:54.599
opening story in my book Read Bigger. When I became

452
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:57.720
responsible for a multi hundred person team, like my first

453
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:01.680
large team job, I it was you know, smack dab

454
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.559
in the face, Like you have to get these people

455
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:10.519
to trust you. You have to build a relationship with them.

456
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:13.680
You need to learn how to care about them, not

457
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.240
just the work that they're cranking out, but you need

458
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:21.119
to learn what it takes to care about them in

459
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.759
a way that they know that you're going to be

460
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:24.359
there for them.

461
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.839
Okay, So for for.

462
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.680
Me, every relationship starts with that opportunity, right, that opportunity

463
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.319
to build connection beyond hey, how are you and.

464
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.000
What you do this weekend? Okay, Now, I'm no fool.

465
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.400
The bulk of business relationships are transactional, not they're not

466
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:44.279
deeply meaningful, right, they are for purpose, and there's nothing

467
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.839
wrong with that. But in the in the in the

468
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.480
work environment, for me, I tried to connect with people

469
00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.680
in ways that others, other leaders perhaps didn't.

470
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:54.039
You know.

471
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.440
You know, I started a blog at work when blogging

472
00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:01.920
first became a thing, and I I started it originally

473
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:04.359
because I wanted to connect with my people on a

474
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.240
large scale, and I wanted them to hear my voice,

475
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.079
not a voice that was filtered through a corporate presentation

476
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.920
and earnings report, you know, a town hall script or

477
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.480
something like that. I wanted them to hear my voice

478
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.440
on a regular basis and get a sense.

479
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:20.960
Of who I was.

480
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.759
And then by doing that then they would get more

481
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.079
comfortable giving me a sense.

482
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:26.640
Of who they were.

483
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.039
And that quite fectly, that's that seemed to work quite

484
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:34.640
well with many people. So what I see in people

485
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.519
as a leader, I always look for to and try

486
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:39.799
to understand.

487
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:42.960
What is their motivation at work? Right?

488
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.799
So what is work to them? Is it the means

489
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.599
to Is it the means to an end?

490
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:49.240
Right?

491
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.160
Is it about you know? Is it about putting food

492
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.640
on the table? Is it about healthcare? Is it about

493
00:26:54.920 --> 00:27:00.880
you know, becoming financially independent, financially saw it and stable

494
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:03.319
so that they can go pursue their passion which is

495
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:09.240
this right? Is that about enabling them to support their family,

496
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.039
support their on a broader scale, not just perhaps their children,

497
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.640
but their parents and maybe brothers, sister, whatever the case

498
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:21.880
may be. And I being somebody who most of my

499
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.079
operational career, which was over thirty two years, loved my job.

500
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.200
Most of the time I loved working, I always had

501
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.000
to remind myself that not everybody loves their job like

502
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.160
the way I loved my job. But that doesn't mean

503
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.799
that they did not deserve to be invested in, to

504
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:43.599
be heard, to be treated, to be cared for in

505
00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:46.119
the same way that somebody else who did love their

506
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:51.720
job was. And my job was to identify help them

507
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:56.359
see the potential in them help them see what great

508
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.599
performance could look like if they weren't already there, help

509
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:02.920
them see how their impact could be even greater, right,

510
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.839
and importantly convince them that I was there to support them, right,

511
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.079
and demonstrate that not just in my words but also

512
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:14.119
my actions. And so I think that's the job of

513
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:16.480
every great leader, every bigger leader, quite frankly, is to

514
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.400
bring out the best in every single individual, to bring

515
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.960
out the best in a collective team. Right. It is

516
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.279
this you'll you're hearing this theme from me over and over, right,

517
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:27.960
which is you must focus on the individual, the human,

518
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.799
the person. But you're a leader, you also have to

519
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.759
focus on the broader team, the organization, the sections, the

520
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.480
whole orchestra, right, and then the whole set of clients, right,

521
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.200
the whole set of shareholders, right, your audience, whatever the

522
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:43.279
case may be. You've got all these different cohorts of

523
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.440
people who are important to you as a leader, and

524
00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.519
you've got to mandal manage and handle all of those

525
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:54.119
relationships simultaneously, and sometimes the priorities conflict. You know, this

526
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.440
is really what leading bigger is all about, is leading

527
00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:59.920
always with humans at the core, people at the core

528
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.519
of everything that you do. But do it in a

529
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.720
way that isn't soft, that isn't about squishy things. It's

530
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.079
about delivering you know, hardened results, but in the right way, right,

531
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.799
in a lasting, trusted, agile, meaningful kind of way.

532
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:20.480
Quick, before you forget, what is the difference between activation

533
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.680
and inspiration?

534
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.720
Oh, motivate? You mean activation or motive motivation?

535
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:25.119
That you mean?

536
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:30.039
I mean inspiration? And because I feel like leaders can

537
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:35.359
inspire but also they help people act for themselves, if

538
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:36.039
that makes sense.

539
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:39.119
Yeah, okay, yeah, So I would wort it this way

540
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:41.799
in terms of how I think about it, I would

541
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:46.839
word it motivation versus inspiration. Right, So for me, motivation

542
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:50.000
is so let's say that that we're coworkers. Okay, so

543
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.599
a way that I might motivate you might be tie.

544
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:55.920
You know what, if we don't get this deliverable done

545
00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.920
by Friday and it's not perfect, we might lose our jobs. Right, Okay,

546
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.319
this is really you're highly motivated. I'm highly motivated because

547
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:07.839
neither of us want to lose our job, right, Okay, Okay,

548
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.519
if I were to inspire you, this might be what

549
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.559
I would say, Ty, can you believe that we have

550
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:20.119
this opportunity to support the Olympics. But my gosh, this

551
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:23.079
pressure with this deadline just came up. It's Friday. But

552
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.920
if we don't, if we don't get this done, then

553
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.000
can you imagine we're going to miss this huge opportunity

554
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:33.440
to impact how viewers are experiencing the Olympics. And man,

555
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.599
what an amazing thumb print we could have on how

556
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.559
the world experiences the Olympics if we can get.

557
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.319
This done together. You see the difference.

558
00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.640
Motivation is kind of like an external factor that motivates,

559
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.000
that triggers something in you that that yeah, I got

560
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.400
to get. They both have equal sense of urgency inspiration.

561
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.440
And maybe this is what you're saying with activation using

562
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:01.759
your words, comes from within, right, the drug, the desire

563
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:06.359
to do it isn't because there's a stick, right, It's

564
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:09.640
because man, I got I got a chance to be

565
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.640
something part of something really big, and yeah, I'm gonna

566
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.359
have to work day and night from now till Friday,

567
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.480
but wow, it's going to be it's going to be amazing, right,

568
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.839
and we can do it. Right, So it's this and

569
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.680
if leaders can tap into that inspiration, that activation from

570
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.119
the inside of somebody, there there are no limits. There

571
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.759
are no limits I mean, that's always the key. But again,

572
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:38.839
let me state the reality of it. Not everybody can

573
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:42.880
be inspired by everything that needs to get done, right, Yeah,

574
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:46.440
sometimes you need to just use motivation because that's what

575
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.160
there is and that's what it calls for.

576
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:48.640
Right.

577
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:51.920
And you know, this is something that I learned, especially

578
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:53.519
in the early parts of my career, because I was

579
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:58.400
so I was like so insatiably curious that I could

580
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:02.440
almost be inspired just simple by the learning itself, right,

581
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:06.160
even if the work was boring, if there was something

582
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:11.000
to be learned, something different to be experienced, I still

583
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:11.759
found it cool.

584
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:15.599
Right. So, but but I'm not wired.

585
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.319
Like everybody else, right, So you know, you got to

586
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.000
learn how to respect how people are wired and what

587
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:23.039
makes them take and what makes them work, and what's

588
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:25.880
ideally what's most important to them, you know, so that

589
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.400
you can find that a little bit cliche, but that

590
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:33.079
win when outcome, that win when dynamic in your relationship.

591
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.720
Well, I feel seen in your curiosity, and it makes

592
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.880
me wonder how you harness that for good instead of

593
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.160
you know, you said it like it was a bad thing,

594
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.039
and I don't. I don't think it is. But how

595
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.000
do you work with it and how do you how

596
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.000
do you work with your curiosity so that it doesn't

597
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:49.599
get in the way.

598
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:51.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

599
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.680
So it's it's interesting that you asked this time because

600
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:57.720
I was just I was just having a mentoring posession

601
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:01.599
with somebody who just became a C level is one

602
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:03.000
of the top jobs in their company.

603
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:05.119
And she was actually.

604
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.000
Asking me what I advice I would give, right, And

605
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.880
this was exactly the point that I made with her,

606
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:13.200
because there are other areas of the business that she's very,

607
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.319
very comfortable with because she came from those parts of

608
00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:18.480
the business. She knows them, right, She knows what to

609
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:20.880
do to lead the whole thing. But there are some

610
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.960
parts of the business that she's picked up that she

611
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:28.599
doesn't know. And so her innate, her innate desire is

612
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.160
the board to the center of the earth on those

613
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:35.160
areas of the business, because she knows what she knows

614
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.599
about the other piece of the business, but this new

615
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.119
piece of the business, she knows not even close to

616
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.160
what she did know, right, So what I said to

617
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.279
her was like, look, you will never replicate ten years

618
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:47.160
of experience that you had on this other side of

619
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:49.960
the business, right, So don't have that as the bar right.

620
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.319
Of course, you absolutely have to go and understand the business.

621
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:55.079
You have to inspect what you expect. You have to

622
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.599
get the right governance, and got to make sure that

623
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.599
you've got the right people and those parts of the business.

624
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:03.160
But be careful because because you're the big.

625
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:09.719
Boss now, any question you ask is going to start

626
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:13.400
the gears churning in your organization. So you may view

627
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:18.119
it as an innocent, educational question, but you know, six

628
00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:20.440
layers deep into the organization, they're going to say, oh,

629
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.119
did you know she was asking about this and this

630
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:23.920
and this? I wonder if she means this, this and

631
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.400
this right. So you've got to keep that curiosity and

632
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:32.159
check and make sure that it's managed and not inadvertently

633
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:38.079
being interpreted incorrectly. Right, Like, you have six hundred questions

634
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:39.480
here because you don't have faith in that part of

635
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.480
the business. These people don't know you because you're not

636
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:44.519
from that part of the business, So how might they

637
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:48.400
interpret you asking six hundred questions versus six?

638
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:49.239
Right?

639
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:51.360
You know, and there is some there is some in between.

640
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.320
Obviously I'm being a little bit noultraumatic.

641
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:56.639
So I do think that your curiosity.

642
00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:00.320
I'm a big believer of feeding your curiosity. In fact,

643
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:03.880
curiosity is one of those characteristics that I attribute to

644
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:07.840
great leaders. I have always found that people who are

645
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.639
more innately curious tend to have a streak of humility

646
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:15.039
in them because they're not They're not afraid of saying,

647
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.119
you know what, I absolutely have no idea what that is,

648
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:20.320
and I'm gonna go learn about it.

649
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:21.039
Right.

650
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.599
So, but there is such a time as such a

651
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:28.679
thing as the right place and time and being much

652
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.880
more mindful about your audience and the company that you're

653
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:36.000
in to decide how much of you know, how many

654
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.000
degrees of your curiosity do you want to unleash in

655
00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:43.480
that moment so as to avoid unnecessary work for others

656
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.679
and perhaps being missing your questions and your interests being misinterpreted.

657
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:51.880
So well, it makes me wonder what other things are like,

658
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:56.039
what other beliefs about leadership people perceive to be true

659
00:35:56.559 --> 00:36:00.159
that are actually holding them back. Like obviously curiosity, we

660
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.039
have to be careful, like you just said, But what

661
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:06.280
other areas do you see that people kind of misunderstand

662
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.119
that it end up holding them back, and how can

663
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:08.719
we do better?

664
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:09.960
Yeah?

665
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.719
Yeah, So this is very much part of the impetus

666
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.800
and part of the inspiration as to why I wrote

667
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:19.559
about a book about leadership and about inclusive leadership very specifically,

668
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.800
and that is that there is a misperception that in

669
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.480
order to have high performance and develop a high performance culture,

670
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.920
that you have to be like you have to be hardened,

671
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.719
you have to be you know, strictly disciplined, you have

672
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.519
to be this, this, this right, And some believe that

673
00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.800
that is having a high performance organization is counter to

674
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.239
having a high people organization. For me, what I learned

675
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.880
is they're one and the same thing. This stems from

676
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:58.519
my belief in my decades of experience that every business

677
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.639
is a people business, right, that leadership is a choice,

678
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:06.039
and that culture is your ultimate and only sustainable competitive advantage,

679
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:07.760
no matter what kind of business you have.

680
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:08.480
Right.

681
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:11.480
So, knowing that human connection is the most powerful thing

682
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:15.440
in the world, in order to have a high performance culture,

683
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.440
you have to have a high people culture. It is

684
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:24.280
possible to hold people accountable and be kind, right. You know,

685
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:29.679
you can execute a layoff and be respectful.

686
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:33.440
As you're doing it. Right, you know, you can have a.

687
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:38.480
Heavy execution focused culture but also a high learning culture.

688
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:39.400
Right.

689
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.719
So, I think this is one of the biggest misperceptions

690
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:51.360
is that somehow kindness and respect and intensity don't mix. Right,

691
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:53.840
you either have to be high performance or high high people,

692
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.519
And in my view, bigger leaders understand that they're both,

693
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.400
they're the same thing, and therefore manage it that way.

694
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:04.679
You know, some might think that a book on inclusion

695
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.519
would be some touchy feely thing about the workforce and

696
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:08.639
workforce representation.

697
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.639
That's not it at all.

698
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.880
My definition of leading bigger, which is synonymous with leading inclusively,

699
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:20.239
is widening your perspective for greater performance and impact. So

700
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.760
I'll say that one more time, widening your perspective for

701
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.320
greater performance and impact. Now in a world that is

702
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:33.199
more interconnected now than it has ever been, it yet

703
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:40.760
feels more polarized than divided. I wholeheartedly believe that the

704
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.480
successful leaders of today and the leaders of tomorrow must

705
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:50.800
learn to and master leading inclusively, leading with the skill

706
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.000
of being able to widen your perspective for greater performance

707
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.239
and impact the way that you widen your perspective. Right,

708
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:00.360
A couple of ideas. One surround yourself with people who are.

709
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:00.639
Different than you.

710
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.360
Pretty obvious, right, they bring different perspectives. That is not

711
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:13.199
solely a gender or race thing, that's background, experience, geography, culture, language, function, experience, education,

712
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:19.199
infinite dimensions of difference widening your perspectives. Another way is

713
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:22.280
to seek different data and information sources than that which

714
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.719
you usually go to. You know, we are in this

715
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.400
echo chamber right now of media. So if you listen

716
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.000
to one particular channel, that's all you listen to, and

717
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.079
you are in this echo chamber of people who are

718
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:34.320
just like you, who are listening to the same thing,

719
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.360
who are hearing the exact same thing. One of the

720
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:40.599
things that I do to myself during political election season

721
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.679
is I will purposely bounce around, you know, after a

722
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:50.079
major event, major announcement, because I am forcing myself to

723
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.000
widen my perspective, to hear different perspectives and that than

724
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:57.199
the ones that I have, because I believe it will

725
00:39:57.199 --> 00:39:59.920
help make me better and also better understanding of other

726
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.559
people who may have different views than me. And then

727
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:04.760
the third way to widen your perspective is to seek

728
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:08.280
different experiences. You know, you know, I mentor people. Hey,

729
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:09.920
if you've got a desk job today, do you ever

730
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:12.480
think about going into the field right If you're in

731
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.719
a customer facing job today, have you ever thought about

732
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.719
going into strategy or something like that. Right, widen your

733
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:22.440
experiences to develop those different perspectives is also another is

734
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:26.239
also another way. And so those are just some of

735
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:28.199
some of my thoughts around that.

736
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:33.239
Quick before you forget, what question should every leader be

737
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:34.559
asking themselves daily?

738
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:42.960
Every leader should be asking themselves did I make a

739
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:46.519
difference in somebody's life today? And did I move the

740
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.159
ball forward? Did I make progress for my business?

741
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:50.039
Right?

742
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:55.280
That's beautiful and perfect because we all you know, it

743
00:40:55.840 --> 00:40:58.159
can feel like a mountain sometimes, right, Like it can

744
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:02.400
feel like overwhelming and and you know everything you just said,

745
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:04.679
it's it's I think we might have actually even been

746
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.159
a Franklin Covey line. But like says e Z does

747
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.639
hard right and and and it's one of those things

748
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:11.559
that you need to like take step by step in

749
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.480
little by little. What is something that you had to

750
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:18.920
unlearn about yourself to step into what you feel is

751
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:19.920
a bigger leader?

752
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:21.880
Yeah?

753
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:31.239
For for me, I I was raised in a household, right,

754
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:36.800
an immigrant household that was always pushing. You know, my

755
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.360
parents were very very stereotypical immigrant parents. Right, if you

756
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:40.960
brought him.

757
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.559
An a why not be a plus?

758
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:46.679
You know, like if you got an eighty, you know,

759
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:48.360
that would.

760
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.840
Be really in trouble, okay, But there was this constant like,

761
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:58.079
there was this constant feeling of never being satisfied.

762
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:00.760
Right, And as a.

763
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:07.239
Child, I suppose that was okay because most children, given

764
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.920
choice would not be pushing themselves to grow and learn

765
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:13.760
and be uncomfortable and all that. So I'm not at

766
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:18.320
all begrudging my parents' chosen style and approach of how

767
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.039
they raised us. I'm grateful for it, right, because it

768
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.119
was constantly uncomfortable. It was constantly focus on growth, constantly

769
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:27.679
focus on learning, and at the end of it, they

770
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:31.880
were just simply committed to me realizing my potential. They

771
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:34.960
were pushing me hard to see what I could become,

772
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:39.880
right for myself, not for them, for myself. But the

773
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:43.800
thing that I've had to unlearn from myself is because

774
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:50.960
I have always had been so driven, right, it is

775
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:57.360
hard for me to say, Okay, that's good enough, or man,

776
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.360
that's actually great and it's great enough, and like just stop,

777
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:02.519
like what are you doing? You know, I'll tie I'll

778
00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:03.639
give you a perfect example of this.

779
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:04.519
I left corporate.

780
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:06.639
So I retired from AT and T after thirty two

781
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.360
plus years just so we're three and a half years ago.

782
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:10.719
Three and a half Yeah, so three and a half

783
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:12.840
years ago in the late part of twenty twenty two,

784
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:16.599
and I had a vision for what I wanted to

785
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:18.559
do in this chapter of my career, in my life.

786
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:20.519
In fact, I don't call it retirement. I call it

787
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:24.559
rewirement very specifically because I am still working, but in

788
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:27.599
a very very different way. Well, as you know me, ty,

789
00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:29.599
your audience has come to know me a little bit

790
00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:30.559
here in our time together.

791
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:33.599
I went all in in rewirement.

792
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:38.159
And I was so active in so many different things

793
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:41.559
as I was trying to figure this all out, you know,

794
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:44.159
during which time I also wrote my first solo published

795
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:45.920
you know, first solo authored book.

796
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:48.920
And last year, which.

797
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:52.159
Was my third year of rewirement, I was flat out,

798
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.079
like I was so busy.

799
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:57.440
My calendar was so insane.

800
00:43:57.400 --> 00:43:59.559
That my kid, my adult kids, my young adult kids

801
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.920
actually say to me, momm you know, we think you

802
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:04.960
actually work more this year than you ever have in

803
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.079
your decades, you know, at at and C. And that

804
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:13.320
was like I was feeling it and intellectually knowing it,

805
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:19.599
but I wasn't really embracing the reality of it. And

806
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:23.239
so for me, pivoting into this year twenty twenty six,

807
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.000
and as an asside, many of my friends don't.

808
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.039
Think I'm going to be able to do it.

809
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:34.239
I have actually an intentional objective to scale back a

810
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:35.519
little bit, a little bit.

811
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:37.719
What does that look like for you? Like, tell me

812
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.280
what that looks like, because I know, I know you

813
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.039
and you do a lot for a.

814
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.559
Lot and a lot.

815
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:44.920
I think what's cool for me is it's a lot

816
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:47.639
of service and a lot of impact and its it's

817
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.159
good work. So how do you what does that look like?

818
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.159
Yeah, so it's still it's still doing everything by choice, right.

819
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:57.840
Which is the most beautiful thing about rewirement is there's

820
00:44:57.880 --> 00:44:59.519
not a single thing I'm involved in that I did

821
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:04.400
not con say yes too. Okay, what scaling back for

822
00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:08.679
me looks a little bit more like here is less travel,

823
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.480
more time focused on health. You know, I've got a

824
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.079
big milestone birthday this year, the year of the fire

825
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:19.800
Horse and the Chinese zodiac, so it is my year,

826
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.519
and so I need to I need to recommit to

827
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:28.760
my health and wellness so that I can be there

828
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:33.360
now and in the future for those whom I care

829
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.199
most deeply about, right, both the people and the causes

830
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.280
that I care most deeply about, and so you know,

831
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.199
there's no time at like the present and it's never

832
00:45:41.239 --> 00:45:44.280
too late to start, so that that's what it looks

833
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:47.840
like more and I would say even more intentional time

834
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:51.559
with those people I care about. So February for me

835
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:56.000
was as an example of a reasonably lighter travel month

836
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:57.719
than certainly the last eighteen months.

837
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:01.239
I've been so I coined it, you know, side friendship February.

838
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:04.280
My favorite week in February was a week where I

839
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.280
went out to launch four out of five days of

840
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:11.519
the week with friends with no time clock. You know,

841
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:16.280
wonderful food, wonderful community and just you know, the love

842
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.519
of each other and just spending time with each other.

843
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:23.079
It's just such a beautiful thing. And that is the

844
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.360
power of human connection. That's what's the most important thing

845
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:26.199
in the world.

846
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.000
It's my that is my everything. Human connection really truly

847
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:34.679
is the tie that brings all of all of my

848
00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:38.000
life together, truly, and how I even know you is

849
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.400
such a special thing that that you know, evolved over

850
00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:45.000
time and we've you know, mostly had a relationship on

851
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.199
the Internet, which is a cool, cool thing about technology

852
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:51.440
that can be sometimes you know, there's all kinds of

853
00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.199
negatives about technology, but that's one that's one positive thing.

854
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.320
So absolutely, as you are, you know, reflecting in this

855
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.199
this big energy year that you're having, what would you

856
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.400
tell twenty two year old Anne if you had the chance.

857
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:11.800
Yeah, I would tell twenty two year old and to one,

858
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:13.159
care less about what.

859
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:17.039
People think, it's a good one. Two. I mean, I think.

860
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:20.360
Many young versions of us would have really benefited from it.

861
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.440
I mean, I look back on my career in life.

862
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.920
I spent a lot of emotional you know, kill a

863
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.119
calories and energy on that.

864
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:30.199
Yeah.

865
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:33.239
I would also tell my twenty two year old self

866
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:38.800
to enjoy the ride as much as you're envisioning enjoying

867
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:43.119
the destination, you know, I would also tell this is

868
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:45.440
actually a chowisom. I would also tell my twenty two

869
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:47.519
year old self that there really truly is no such

870
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.679
thing as failure. There's only success in learning, So don't

871
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:52.519
even worry about it. So if you mess up and

872
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:54.880
you think you really messed up bad or you feel

873
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:58.639
like you really stumbled, you're not a failure unless you

874
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.559
just don't ever get up. And we always get up

875
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:05.639
and we keep moving. And so I would tell my

876
00:48:05.719 --> 00:48:08.320
twenty year old self that and then lastly it would

877
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:10.960
be it's about the people. But my twenty two year

878
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:13.480
old self was on a reasonable trajectory to have this

879
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:17.800
realization pretty early about the importance of people, the importance

880
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:21.039
of relationships in your life, and also with a very

881
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:25.079
human centered, people centered approach to leadership that that is

882
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:29.920
truly well, it's not well, it's not rocket science. It

883
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:35.320
is in fact magic. And if you can lead that way,

884
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.360
you will help change the lives of so many people.

885
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:42.519
You will help make advances in business in ways that

886
00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:46.920
you could not have ever ever predicted. And so those

887
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:48.280
are a couple of things that I would tell my

888
00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:49.400
twenty two year old self.

889
00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:52.239
You said this word that I am holding on to

890
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:56.199
called chooisms. Yeah, I want more of them. Give me

891
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:57.280
more chooisms.

892
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:00.320
Well, there's a bunch of them on my website. Okay

893
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.039
beanshow dot com?

894
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:02.440
All right?

895
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:04.519
Kind of like what some of my team members coined,

896
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.880
like my quotes, kind of some of my mantras, and

897
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:09.920
we all share one of the one of the probably

898
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:12.800
most anchoring ones for those who know me, this is

899
00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.039
kind of the way that I strive to lead and

900
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:17.599
live my life, and that is that life and leadership

901
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:21.079
are all about relationships. Be sure to seek and foster

902
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.000
remainingful ones.

903
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.199
It that's a good one and something that you know,

904
00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:29.719
I think honestly a lot of people there's just so

905
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:33.000
much going on obviously, the world is a weird place

906
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:36.239
right now, and that is something that we can ground

907
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.960
ourselves in and find, you know, find home in our

908
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.480
people that we choose to surround ourselves with. And that's

909
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:45.800
that's another thing you said. It's it's an intentional decision.

910
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:48.480
You know that the friend week that you had, for example,

911
00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:51.039
like you, you chose those friends to spend that time

912
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:53.320
with and and that's such a gift when you when

913
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:54.320
you have those times come.

914
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:56.760
It was it was, It wasn't it is?

915
00:49:56.840 --> 00:50:00.079
That's for sure, right, and it is we all we

916
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.440
all have choice of some kind, right, we all have agency,

917
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:04.800
and that's really what we all crave. Right. We want

918
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.519
to be in control of our own destiny. And we

919
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:09.960
can't control everything, right, but if we stay focused on

920
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.800
that which we do control, you know, like the people

921
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:15.960
we choose to be our true friends, the people you

922
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:20.039
know are chosen family, if you will, it's I mean.

923
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:21.159
It's really it's it's really a gift.

924
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:24.199
I do believe that every single person was put on

925
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:29.519
this earth for a unique reason. And you know, my

926
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:32.760
job as a leader, both in business and in life

927
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:36.719
is to help people figure out what that you know,

928
00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:38.960
what what that gift is and you know what they're

929
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:41.719
calling is, and be supportive of them so that they

930
00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.840
can you know, unleash it and give it, give it

931
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:45.360
to the world.

932
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.800
So is there a story about that that you have

933
00:50:48.920 --> 00:50:51.360
that kind of comes to mind easily of an example

934
00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:54.119
where you've done that for somebody and with somebody that

935
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:56.559
you know sticks with you and really had had an

936
00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:58.400
impact on you in addition to them.

937
00:50:59.320 --> 00:50:59.960
Yeah, they're they're.

938
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.880
There are I mean, I don't want to be specific here,

939
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:03.400
but there are.

940
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:04.559
I mean, there are quite.

941
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:08.519
A few people who I have helped and supported throughout

942
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:11.880
their careers, and their careers have taken off in ways

943
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:18.039
that have yielded unbelievable traditionally developed like traditionally measured success

944
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:22.719
if you will have unleashed unbelievable amounts of wealth, right

945
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:27.199
and generational wealth such that. I mean, it's just it's

946
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:29.480
an incredible feeling to know that you were just you

947
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:33.639
played just such a small part, you know, in someone's journey,

948
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:36.840
you know, and to the point of how a conversation

949
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.039
can make a difference. I have seen this happen not

950
00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:42.719
just in those relationships that I might have an enduring

951
00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:45.800
you know, mentorship or sponsorship role, or having worked with

952
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:48.480
somebody over a long period of time. I've seen this

953
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:52.519
from a lunch I had with somebody or just getting

954
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:56.559
together for you know, dinner casually after a class. Right.

955
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.519
I've seen this with a couple of my students as well,

956
00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:07.639
where just that one deep conversation, you know, unfettered, unfiltered

957
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:14.639
and true yielded something triggered, something catalyzed something, or helped

958
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:19.000
to do so in that persons that helps set them

959
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.280
on a different trajectory than where they were headed, right,

960
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:27.360
And that is just it's I mean, it's incredible, it's priceless.

961
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:29.480
It's a feeling like no other, you know, and I

962
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.760
think it's one of those it's one of the greatest

963
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:34.039
things about being a bigger leader is moments like that,

964
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:35.920
people like that that you know that you played some

965
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:38.199
small part in, right, And it.

966
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:42.719
Doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be over

967
00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:44.039
years or over months.

968
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.440
I mean, you know, you can make a profound difference

969
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:49.480
in somebody's life just through one conversation. I mean, that's

970
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:54.079
how change happens, one person at a time, one conversation

971
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:54.800
at a time.

972
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:59.360
I'm feeling a little emotional because I need to have

973
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:02.719
a secret. I need to tell you you did that

974
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:06.079
for me. Oh so this is a full circle moment

975
00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:11.079
for me because I have you know, I've been through

976
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:15.039
some things and I've had some hard times, and I

977
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:19.360
didn't believe in myself. I didn't think I was enough.

978
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:22.159
I didn't think I could do something like launch a

979
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.199
podcast like who do you think you are? Tai? You know,

980
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:28.119
like I didn't think that stuff was possible. But because

981
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:31.480
of people like you, and because specifically of a message

982
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:34.239
that you wrote in this book right here about changing

983
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:36.119
the world together. Like I don't want to cry because

984
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:39.239
I'm trying to keep it together, but you did that

985
00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:42.199
for me in a way that I'm so grateful for,

986
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:44.880
which is why having you on the show today is

987
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:48.800
so special for me. And I just wanted to say,

988
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:50.880
I know you didn't want to call anybody out or

989
00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.039
use anybody specific, but you can use my story anytime

990
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:57.400
if you want, because I am very, very grateful for

991
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:00.320
your belief in me when I didn't see it, when

992
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:01.920
I you know, I was showing up and I was

993
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:04.320
doing my heart the hardest, the hardest I could do

994
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:07.559
to to do the right thing, and it never felt

995
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:12.079
right until this, this here right now. So it's because

996
00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:16.559
of people taking you know, the smallest thing like signing

997
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:19.760
a book with a message about changing the world really

998
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:23.800
can have a lasting impact far far longer and have

999
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:26.159
a bigger impact because you think about the you know,

1000
00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:29.079
the people that are listening and watching this this show

1001
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:33.039
and hopefully feeling seen and having there be a level

1002
00:54:33.079 --> 00:54:36.960
of learning and impact that happens then in their lives,

1003
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:39.920
like they then go on and share and act differently

1004
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:43.760
because of what we are talking about is like the dream.

1005
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:47.239
So thank you and for being here. Thank you for

1006
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:51.199
sharing and pouring into me and also pouring into everybody

1007
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:52.719
that that's listening here today.

1008
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:55.000
Well, thank you, Tian, thank you so much for sharing

1009
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:58.400
that story with me. It is it is priceless, It

1010
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.599
is so meaningful on it it's it's really been my

1011
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:04.559
pleasure to spend time with you here. Congratulations on the podcast.

1012
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:08.239
These conversations will endure and will help people not only

1013
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.599
in our generation, but generations to come. I mean, that's

1014
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:15.000
the beautiful thing about technology, you know and be written

1015
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:17.440
and spoken word these days, is that they will live

1016
00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:21.679
into perpetuity and help so many people that we don't

1017
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:23.599
even know of, we may never even hear of. So

1018
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:26.400
thank you for putting your voice out there again, giving

1019
00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:29.920
me this chance, and for opening the conversation in such

1020
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:30.639
a beautiful way.

1021
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.800
Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like

1022
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.760
to share about your reqirement? Where can people find you?

1023
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:38.960
Anything like that? I don't want to wrap up on

1024
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:41.960
that was a beautiful wrapping point, but I do want

1025
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:44.000
to give you a chance to talk through where people

1026
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:46.480
can find you and get more an in their life.

1027
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:46.960
Sure.

1028
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:50.400
Sure, So you can find me at my website, which

1029
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:53.840
is theanchow dot com. You can also find more chowisms there.

1030
00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:56.920
You can also find me on very social media. I

1031
00:55:56.920 --> 00:56:02.760
would say LinkedIn certainly is my primary professional platform. I

1032
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:05.960
am also on Instagram, but very very casually, so I

1033
00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:07.280
would love to connect with all.

1034
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:07.719
Of you there.

1035
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:11.559
Beautiful. Thank you so much, Ann, and thank you everybody

1036
00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:14.159
for watching and listening today. Next time I'll see you

1037
00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:17.800
again on quick before you forget. Thank you for being

1038
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:21.960
here with me today on Quick Before you forget, Please like, share,

1039
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:24.920
and subscribe as that helps the show so much and

1040
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.599
I really appreciate it and I'll see you next time

1041
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:29.159
on Quick Before you Forget,