Embracing Duality: Two Things Can Be True

0:00 Keep doing what you're scared of doing. That's like the easiest pathway to growth, right there. Kayla shaheen, thank you, and I'm so excited you're here on quick before you forget today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to dive into all of our shared passions self help, mental health, journaling, creativity, music.

0:50 There's just so much to talk about. There is so much to talk about. I don't even really know where to start, but I will start by making sure that our friends who don't know who you are get to know you a little bit better because they need to know who Kayla is for real. So Kayla is an acclaimed best selling author, creator, genius marketer, and guide in the world of inner work, best known for helping people face the parts of themselves that they've hidden through shadow work and now step into who they're becoming through light work. Her work sits at the intersection of healing and expansion, reminding us that we're not just here to process our pain, but we're here to remember our power. Because becoming whole isn't about choosing shadow or light.

1:35 It's about learning to hold both, and I believe we do that through an amount of storytelling, and I believe that our story is our superpower. So Kayla, what I want to do today is walk through your story a little bit like past, present, and future and just learn from you. Does that sound like fun? Yeah, that sounds great. I'd love to talk to it. And thank you for a beautiful introduction. Thank you. I appreciate that. I think the between opposites is where we find wholeness and a new pathway can emerge. So that's that's my hope through all this work. Well, it's helped me greatly, and in case y'all can't. For anybody that's listening instead of watching, first of all, you're missing out because you need to go watch these episodes and watching them is way more fun. And I have behind me all of these amazing journals that I have put so much of my heart and soul into.

2:26 So and they're Kayla's. There's there's the shadow Work Journal that you guys have maybe heard about, But then there's there's more. That was the three six nine one, there was the Book of shadow Work, and most recently, ah, we have a new one, the light Work Journal. And honestly, for reasons that everybody that knows me will understand. This is my favorite one because it's kind of like the follow up. It's like the like we learned about the hard stuff, we work through the hard stuff, and to me, Kayla, like this feels like the butterfly moment, Like this feels like we had the the icky monkey chrystalist time and now we're like, Okay, now we choose the light. So let's just go back a minute, because I want to learn about your story a little bit more, and that starts in the past, where I think and know that you have people that have shaped who you are today.

3:16 So is there one person in particular, one relationship from your childhood that has become part of who you are and what you're all building. Yeah, I mean, i'd say my parents. They've always been a huge influence in the way that I think and in my openness to dive deep, ever since I was a young girl. I have one older brother, so there's always us in the car driving somewhere and then having really deep conversations. And I'm six years old and I'm like looking outside the window and considering all these beautiful things about the human experience. So it's really colored the way that I moved through the world as an adult in a really meaningful way, and it's Yeah, it's inspiring me to share this kind of thinking and pondering and inquiry with the world. So yeah, I definitely say my parents because they're also deep thinkers and questioners, and I mean, we all do it in different ways, but it's important to share it in our own authentic ways.

4:24 So what a blessing that is just to have that openness and that relationship with your parents like that. And you said six years old specifically, so I'm wondering if was there something specific that you remember from when you were six that that comes to mind. Yeah, definitely, Like when I described the car rides, and in a car ride, when you're having a conversation, you're not looking at each other, but like your voices are there. It's kind of this vortex. And I think that's a space for flow. And I think we found like fluid conversations in the car ride that we would have as a family and road trips that we would do. It's a beautiful shared space where we can sort of get lost in our own ideas and conversations.

5:12 Yeah, can I tell you a funny story about road trips? I just took one with an one hundred percent stranger. So I can't explain why, but I had this like calling and draw to this woman at the gym. It's called lifetime, and you're not supposed to tape in in the area that I was taping, but I saw her reading let them, and I walked in. Let them by Mel Robbins. I saw her reading it and I walked in. I was like, Oh, my gosh, you're so close to the end. I'm so excited for you. I'm so ready for you to embark on this new journey after having read this book. Consumed this book because she had highlighters and posted notes in the whole thing. So I taped her reading the book, and this other woman ended up coming up to her and talking about the book with her, which I thought was the most beautiful moment. And again, I'm not supposed to be taping or taping strangers like it's too at the same time, and I posted it on the internet and Mel Robbins and her team saw it, so they ended up sending us comp tickets to go see her show, either in Minneapolis or Detroit, and they sent them to me and I was like, well, I have to take my new friend Pat from the gym, who I don't know at all. So she and I drove.

6:20 I drove and she talked for five and a half hours on our way to Minneapolis last literally, this was just last week. And the stories like you're right, like there is a different flow that happens like in a car ride, like on a road trip like that where we legitimately shared, like swapped entire life stories on the roughly eleven hours that I spent in the car with this essential stranger. And it was the coolest experience ever. I wish we could all like go on a road trip with a stranger, like would I would add that to anybody's My friend of mine called it a deathbed list instead of a bucket list, because you can have like a bucket list with things like I want to go to Paris, right, but your deathbedlist might include something more.

7:04 It was Emily Ferrett, I just had her on. Your death dead list might include something more. I don't know what the word is. More more purpose driven, like I run a marathon or you know, like things like that, and there's so much that goes into training and running for a marathon in your head and everything else, But thank you for listening to that story because you were speaking my language. I love road trips and the flow of conversation is very beautiful. That happens on those road trips. Podcasts set up too, I do a great podcast setup, like in the car on a road trip. Who that would be really cool. We should do that. That would be so your destination.

7:49 But do you ever? But do you ever? The work is never done. I mean that's the thing. Oh my gosh, So the conversation in the car and you I'm curious though, like when did you start journaling? Were you journaling then at the age of six? Probably sooner than that. I remember, Man, you're really getting me to think super early back and all these like flashes of images are coming up. But I think my first one of my first diaries was this like chunk key plastic one that had like a button key thing that you have to press or unlock. And yes, I think that's what unlocked is the magic of journaling for me was this beautiful, mystical, chunky toy journal and it was Yeah, I mean, it's it's amazing to have a space for yourself to outlet and share your thoughts and feelings without any expectations, without anyone judging you. It's you can be open and free with yourself and learn a lot. And that's a practice that I've just taken on with me throughout any seasons of life, and it's inspired me to create more tools for for myself and for people who will find it useful.

9:09 I've found it useful for sure, and you know I too though, Like I I joke that I have been journaling since I could hold a pencil, and it doesn't. I'm sure it didn't all make sense, and honestly between us, it still doesn't. You know. I journal sometimes and I look back, I'm like, what was I saying? But it doesn't matter because you're processing things that are different and I guess easier to process in that space. So can you talk us through like what you're when you create when you're creating these journals. I mean you said something about like creating something that's helpful for you and being able to share it in a way that's helpful for others. How has that process been like on a like a creative level for you.

9:53 Yeah. I'll use the shadow Work journal as an example, and that journal was inspired after a dark Night of the Soul period for myself. This was post pandemic, when I was just getting out of college, stepping into the real world that looked completely different from the world that I grew up in, trying to figure out who I was and what I was meant to do it was part of It was very heavy and confusing, and I needed to experiment with some things in life, you know, test out different careers. And throughout that process I did hit a rut and it was hard. It was hard.

10:38 I looked for a therapist. I couldn't find a good match. In that process. Time continued to go on and I had to sit with myself and ask, what are you going to do about this? Like, what is what can I take responsibility for and do to help myself? In the kind of moment, I knew it wasn't the end. I knew that this wasn't what life was going to look like for the rest of my life. So I was like, Okay, how do I work with this? What do I learn from this? How do I grow from this? I was getting really anxious. I was in a job that didn't feel right to me. I couldn't I didn't feel like I could be my authentic self. I was like, I can't show up fully here. So I started journaling again, sitting in the floor of my closet and getting in there, and that opened up so much for me during that dark time, and I realized what I was doing was shadow work, deep prompts, understanding the root of my anxieties and frustrations, going back into my childhood, learning how to tend reparent myself in areas that I needed that reparenting.

12:00 And that's when I started learning more about Carl Jung and his ideas and the way he would go about his psychological practices with clients, and it was extremely helpful. And after a period of maybe six seven months of self inquiry and shadow work, I felt like I broke through and the weight was lifted, and I actually started showing up in the same exact job position, but as a different with a different energy, carrying myself in a different way, with a new found you know, source of light.

12:40 It was alchemy. I took what was heavy and what was painful, and then it turned into gold and I could show up more clearly. And that was for myself and for people around me. So the transformation is, you know, it's contagious in a way, and and I got inspired to create a journal out of my practices. I looked at my dire I was like, why isn't why doesn't this exist? If I had a guide, a journal, you know that it could have made my practice a lot more organized or you know, less heavy, maybe more easy to process, more grounded to move through. So I started waking up at five am in the morning blasting the Beatles music in my ears. It was something that my family would listen to when I was a kid. So got me in that inner child inspired state. And I started writing and drafting the first draft of the shadow Work Journal, and it was like this force of creativity just moving through me and excited to take what was confusing and painful and create something from it. I think that's that's been a huge sore of motivation in my life, is you know, once we go through these hardships and confusing times, the clarity and the the meaning that we

14:11 can create on the other side, it's with and it's it's gold. So there's so much alchemy that we can do in our lives. And that was part of my process. But I put it out there. I didn't share it with a lot of people. I was a little I think that's what happens when I create something new and different. It's like, I don't know, I got kind of shy about it, and I just created a TikTok page and I started posting, you know, different pages of the shadow Journal, and over time I was able to build a really beautiful community around that, and I'm glad it resonated. I wasn't sure if it was going to resonate with a lot of people, but it did.

14:57 Oh yeah, a million or so people who purchased the shadow Work Journal. Yeah, like that's incredible. And because I mean, I took a ton of notes while you were talking, so I have, like, I feel like I have to like circle back on several things. But that's a ton of people that have done, including myself, who have used something that you weren't even really sure would help other people. And I think that speaks to the importance of showing up for something that might not make sense out loud right away, because so many of us have these big ideas and big dreams and we feel this like indescribable pull toward something and we don't always go for it because, you know, seeing is believing, but you believed in something and then just kept showing up for that something, And that's a beautiful, beautiful gift to honestly everybody that's had the opportunity to work through your journals. You also said how do I grow from this? Like? How do you turn pain into purpose? And that is I think a lot easier said than done. So as you've done some of this work, and as this whole community has kind of rallied around the work that you're doing, what advice do you have for somebody that's like stuck and doesn't know what that means or how that looks for them to grow in the hard.

16:31 Yeah, I mean it's easier said than done. But know that this isn't the whole picture. Right when we are in the muck and then the stuck, that's our whole perspective. But it's important to also use the gift of our imagination, which everyone has to wonder and ponder and consider the future and other possibilities. What if things looked different? What if you could envision what this is serving you, what this is offering you. Maybe we won't find the answer here and now, but we can walk with the question and As we walk with the question, we grow and we understand deeper, and eventually the answer becomes who we are in the future, what we grow into. So that's the beauty of personal growth and development. Is that the answer the answers to your your confusions and your questions.

17:40 You hold them and over time you grow into the answer. You become like the the source of. Wholeness, right, you grow into the answer. I admire you so much. You have this poetic way of talking that makes me feel so seen. You know, I joke around like I do. I have been journaling, I have been I've been writing poetry for so long, and I err on the side of being a little bit like poetic out loud to people, and they often are just a little curious, like that's just tie, she's a little she's a little quirky like that. But it's just so refreshing to speak with somebody that talks like I do. And I think that that's what you said about the contagiousness of transformation. It's so true because your hard work on yourself and you're showing up regardless of it, not necessarily always making sense for yourself led to your growth and transformation and it's contagious, like it has sparked into the world in all these really cool ways with other people and some I just I'm just very grateful for when I can identif when that's happening in the world, because it's like we need more light. That this world has enough darkness. We have too many bad things going on and we need more light. So when there are light

19:11 bringers that just like generate the light through the dark, that's the thing too, Like you've shown up in the darkness for yourself and by doing that, you showed up for so many more people. And listening to the Beatles, tell me more about that. What Beatles song. Oh you Need is Love? That's the perfect one. There's one that's something about the world goes on, goes On, Yes, that's the title of it. But it's such a funny song to listen to while you're like working on a shadow channel. But that's the energy that I was, like, life goes on and I was just on that wave of life goes on and you can follow the flow.

20:05 It was really. Powerful and still people don't. So what do people get wrong about shadow work? There's a lot of misconceptions around shadow work, just the name in itself, I think is a little disturbing, like, oh, working with your shadows. There's this idea that it's demonic, which it's not. It's a psychological practice of self inquiry and looking into your unconscious. The unconscious is like this vast hidden layer of your psyche that holds everything outside of your conscious awareness, so your repressed memories, your instincts, and also your untapped potential. It's not just like this storage space. It's an active you know, it's an act of wellspring of images, symbols and materials that shape how we think and how we feel and how we behave in life. But yeah, once when the shadow Work journal was taking off, there's definitely like questions and confusion around the practice. And yeah, it's important to know. It was developed by Carl Jung. He's a Swiss analytical psychologist. He works closely with Freud. They had a little breakup. Freud's ideas kind of took over the Western modern mind how

21:37 we look at psychology today. Young's ideas kind of got buried in the shadow of psychology unintended, Yeah, unintended, And so it's it's a really beautiful, beautiful way to look at your psyche and your soul. Psyche means soul, and we've really taken out of psychology. It's more mind body right now in the Western world. But what Carl Jung was presenting and looking at the Shadow was soul work, essentially. I was fascinated by Carl Jung when I did my master's degree in clinical psychology and the undergrad work that I did, I did a lot of study specifically on him.

22:26 We get to you get to kind of choose and do the papers and stuff, and that feels like seventeen thousand lives ago. But also, you know, I chose him in the divorce with him in Freud and it's funny you should say he got buried in the shadows, because I felt that way too. And I think that there was a lot of good he contributed to the world of psychology. And I love that you're such a champion of his If you could that makes me wonder, like I'm just curious, like if you could ask him, if you could ask Carl Jung any question, what would you ask him. I don't know. I need to really think about this one. Honestly, I feel like he answered all the questions with his books.

23:14 And I'm so grateful that he was vulnerable enough and courageous enough to write how he wrote, because he was doing a lot of his own self inquiry and processing, like through The Red Book and of his other books on analytical psychology. Man, yeah, I don't know. I'd have to get back to that. But there's there's a lot in his books that I feel like I could decode and find answers to. But I guess I would ask him what he would think about light work and shadow work, because he he paved the way for the archetypal energy of shadow and how we can work with that. But shadow work as a practice really emerged after his time, and it was inspired by by his work as well, and it was kind of like the collective understanding of his shadow archetype. So yeah, I wonder what he would think of shadow work and journaling and light work too.

24:26 I feel like he'd be so grateful to, Like I'll never forget I read. So I read Rachel Hollis's Girl WASHERR Face back in twenty nineteen, like a lot of us did, and there was something that felt unfinished about that book. To me. It felt very much like great. I know that I made for it more. But now what like and how like? It was like you identified so many good things about like what you could do with your life, but there was no like manual. And then you know, last year if she came out with what if you are the Answer? And I thought that was the coolest book end to girl wash your face? You know, several years later it was like you know, she she wrote, none of us need a manual on X y Z. We need to know how it how we can bring it to life. So I think, and this is maybe just because I'm biased and I'm a fan of yours, but I think that he would be super pumped because the light work journal feels like a an and like you do the shadow you do the shadow work, and this is how you, like like Mel Robbins again like let them and then let me do X you know, like you it's it's the it's the action that you the individual take toward building the life that you are becoming. And it's it that's beautiful. So I just I think I think he'd be a big fan of yours. But at what point does healing become less about the past and more about the future.

26:00 Mm hmm. I think let me think about this. I'm not sure how I feel about the word healing in terms of this. I think there's healing imposes that there's something wrong that needs to be fixed sometimes, and I think we grow through our experiences in the present moment, and it's more about I'm like thinking in images right now, so I'm trying to put into words connection, like if there's something open, like for example, a wound right or there's a disconnection you're maybe not resonating in the current career that you're in or the friendship that you're in, there is a disconnect and because of that, we start coming up with things to compensate for that disconnect. So healing or recovering from that is really about finding ways to repair the connection to what's being disconnected. And sometimes we don't need to do that through external things. We need to do that in an internal fashion and then

27:30 we can show up and feel more connected in our present reality. I'm not sure if that answers your question, but no. It does. It's just interesting because I'm wondering, like I just feel like a lot of people resist looking at their shadow even though we know it's there, or working with their shadow even though we know it's there, And I don't know how like, because like, I think there's a difference between awareness and healing, and I don't know how to help, like and maybe it's not my job to do, but I really wish I could help people like bridge that gap. Do you know what I mean? Yeah? For sure?

28:14 So what like, how how do you know when you're actually doing light work? Not? Well, let's let's pivot off a shadow work, Like, how do you know that the light work is working like in the way that you would want it to work. So in my personal practice, I've developed this ability to balance the duality of life. There's gonna be a day where you're feeling triggered or anxious or you're rushing through life, and that's a sign to pause and do shadow work. How how like you are a genius at this And I'm sorry to I hate interrupting people, but like, pausing when you're chaotic and triggered is difficult and like, and I know it takes practice, but how like, how how do you how do you slow it down? How do you quiet that that that noise that can take over?

29:14 It's a challenge, for sure, And I'll use myself as an example, like I've been experiencing like I keep I want to move fast, and I feel like there's so much to do, and and then I get in my head and I start experiencing the shadows of of anxiety or I don't know, there's like some anger there. So I need to dissolve that. So what I'll do in that In that process, I bring into the awareness Okay, I'm feeling this, this energy, this pool, it's outside of me. It's not me. So when it's first and then body like where is this? Is it? Like in my chest?

30:00 Is it in my legs? Is it in my arms? My head? I think I hold a lot in my head whenever this happens. So then after that is the action, like what can you take? What actions can you take to help dissolve this? Or for me recently, it's been like I can slow down time if I slow myself down, and then I end up getting these things done and it feels like magic and it's like, Okay, my shadow was getting in the way I was, you know, self sabotaging. So I mean everyone's method is going to look different depending on what they're going through. That's why I recommend finding the things that work for you, and having that tool kit in the back of your mind whenever you need it.

30:50 Do you hear back from from your community at all about things that work for them? I'm curious if they're because I I have my suggestion, as a person that's followed you on social media for a very long time, would be to follow you because there are things that you do on a daily basis and you share on your particularly like Instagram stories for example, that I'm like, oh, and you are very gifted at the art of noticing and like paying attention to when you get I don't want to call them signs maybe, but just shifts an energy and you're just very aware of things. And I think that takes me. I think the thing that people don't recognize is that does take practice, like I do.

31:34 Joy from the ground Up is my little series on TikTok where I have my phone on the ground and I say like, what are you grateful for today? And you know the reason that I keep showing up and doing those even though they're super cringe and nobody comments. I know that you know. Every now and then somebody does and they stop and they pause and they actually look at their world around them and they find something to be grateful for in that moment and that grounds them. And I know that if I can do that for one person, it's so worth it. Because but it's taken me the practice, Like it's taken me, like you said, like slowing things down in my mind to be able to notice and pick these things up. And now that I've been doing it for I honestly probably say I've been practicing gratitude and practicing noticing and practicing paying attention to all those little things for like seven years and that is what it's taken for me to get to this point now where I can go out into the world and I'm like, wow, look at that pretty tree, And like I have friends in my life that are like, wow, she's a little should looking at the tree, like it's just a tree tie, you know. But I'm just I just see beauty and like the color. And you know, life in four K is beautiful.

32:48 When you notice you feel that connection, that's when you're healing the split between the disconnection that we're experiencing as a culture with our environment with ourselves. So that's beautiful, it's really cool. So I how do you m hmm. I mean why is why is joy? Like? Why is noticing? In your opinion, sometimes harder, like it should be easier, Like in my opinion it should be easier. But I feel like it's so much easier to be horimogeony and you know, to share the misery. And you said a word that is close to my heart about like alchemy, and you know, you think about like the role that that plays and all of the things. I just you know, I wish it wasn't so hard sometimes to choose joy for example, mm hmm.

33:53 Yeah, for sure. If we're not here, then where are we? Yeah? Yeah, So when you choose to see the glimmers in life, it brings you here. That's the most important place to be. That was beautiful. And talk to me about glimmers, Like people don't know what glimmers are, and I love them, So talk to me just like level set for people that might not know. They've maybe heard the term, but they don't know what it means. Glimmers are the opposite of triggers. They calm your nervous system. They're present here and now in the moment, and they're like the shimmering glitter of life that you can find, whether it's the way the tree bark is curving and you notice it, or you know the way someone's talking to you in the middle of a conversation and you see the spark in their eyes. It's that sense of gratitude and a liveness that you can sense in the moment around you, and it's beautiful. It's the beautiful practice to start spotting glimmers in your life because it does shift your energy. And in the zenful Note app, which is an app I created for tracking your triggers and glimmers and checking in with your emotions, you can actually track your glimmers and take pictures of them and write a little note on how you felt before the glimmer

35:24 and then after the glimmer. So yeah, there's tools that you can use to cultivate this practice too. Thank you for mentioning that, because I have that tool and I've used it. I should use it more, but I've used it. It's really cool, and I will include the link in the show notes for people to check that out, because it's really if you don't know where to start, it's a great place to start. So your resources there kind of take all the physical resources that I built and then figured it out a way to integrate that into a digital space. That's a beautiful digital space. Of course, nothing you do is without a level of intention and care that is very special. So I know that we talked about noticing things and grounding and the Beatles and all of that reminds me of like the You know, my whole tool belt is full of music, mindset, and movement. Those are my three words. And music is very very special to me, and I know it's very very special to you, So talk to me about the role that music has played in your develop your personal growth and development.

36:38 Music has always held like an ocean of my soul that I hadn't dared to swim in yet. As an adult, I kind of left it on the sidelines. But in my childhood it was very very alive. I would play rock band with my brother and I would sing and he would be on the guitar. And I remember the feeling of that as a quiet, introverted little girl, just getting up there, just singing on rock band in front of my grandparents and cousins and stuff who would do things like this. And I've taken that practice of vulnerability into my adult life now I'm part of an electronic band called sun Bella, and it's been a really beautiful space to learn learn how to do soul work in real time through creativity and lyrics and just different ways to express through sound. It's you know, with writing, there's still part of me that's organizing and shaping and making sense and taking time. But with music you can bypass all of that. It feels closer to the instinctual self, closer to something very ancient in prime. It's like not like you're creating so much from the mind as much as you're listening for what wants to come through from

38:09 something deeper. So it's been an incredible exploration beyond writing for me. I'm you've made me speechless because everything you just said makes so much sense to me at such a deep, deep, deep level, because I very simply have found so much piece in music and in lyrics and in the expression through all of it, but also just the you can tune into a channel of yourself that can be hard to find with everything else going on in the world through music. Music allows you to, like you said, like called it like the ocean of your soul. Yes, and that is like, like I'm writing, I am put that on a T shirt for real, So check out her music because it's really good, guys, I trust me. She's just it's very peaceful, but also just like soulful. And what is your song? Like, what is your song of survival?

39:18 If you had one, if you had to pick one. I know it's hard when you're a music early, but if you had to pick one, what's your song when you would put on when things are hard and you need to remind ground yourself and remind yourself why you keep going m. In moments of hardship, but also on the opposite side of the spectrum of like a liveness and motivation, it would be the same. I feel like they hold the same kind of amounts of energy. So definitely Time by Hans Zimmer. Oh my gosh, how girl. So emotional, it's motivating. It's like big things happen when you're this to that song inside. So it's when the tsunami of the ocean is happening, and I think I put that song on when when I feel like I need some motivation, or if I am motivated and I want to activate more. I definitely use music as a tool sometimes in practices whether it's shadow work or manifestation, there's certain energies that songs can hold that will align you emotionally to that emotional pathway towards you know, what you're trying to achieve. So in my hardcore manifestation days as well, I would put Time on and then right right, and also in more of the healing and self soothing days.

40:51 Yeah, isn't that interesting? So I have for me a little bit of that song also Hans Zim or anything. But you know the sound I've always been a soundtrack girl. I love a good soundtrack, and it's actually influenced howas I kind of soundtrack my life. I listened to music constantly and and I know I love this about us. And Interstellar is another one that like that one is huge for like when I'm feeling creative or Lindsay Sterling had Duality come out, I think last year at the very perfect time. I just love the violin and just her energy is always so like off the charts, contagious with all the good things she just puts into the world.

41:34 So I but for you to say time, but also for you to say that it's both like you use it when you kind of you use it to kind of balance yourself when you're down, and it keeps you focused when you're up. And that's interesting to me because I've been asking this question and that answer has happened more than I expected, and it's true for me too. Like one of my my my song was Survival that I talk about aside from the ones that I just spoke of, was is Swim by Andrew McMahon. And I've listened to that in some really really sad, sad times, and I've listened to that in some really really good times, including getting to see it live four times last year, So you know, it was just it's fascinating to me that we have these songs that are grounding in both and here we are talking about holding both the shadow and the light, and that's it's just it kind of brings that to light in a cool way that I wasn't expecting. So one of my questions that I've been asking my everybody is what you would tell your twenty two year old self. And I know that that's kind of silly because you're older than that, but not by that much, so but you did react. You're like, oh, and you thought maybe you had something and I'm grateful because I was going to say, like, what would you tell your like eighteen year old self, or I was going to go down a couple of years, but tell me, what would you tell your twenty two year old self?

42:53 Well I had that like reaction with a nod, because my twenty two year old self she well, that's when everything started happening with the shadow Work Journal, So there's a lot going on in my life at that time. Yeah, I think looking back now, I would tell her to have the courage to see yourself and to see the world without illusion, have the courage to discern what's grounded and right for you versus what is not grounded and not coming from you and your truth. And I say this because success comes with a lot of confusion, good confusion and bad confusion, and you have to learn how to navigate that in a very grounded way. And as someone who's so young and you know, anything that was coming my way, I was like, Wow, this is awesome.

43:48 But I'm so happy that I had resources and family and people to help ground me and like back me up and ask me questions, and yeah, really really important skill to practice is discernment, to know what's what's part of the truth and what's part of an illusion? Yeah, go ahead. I think I'm a dreamer for sure, as are you. Probably I am one, yes, and that's actually one. Of my biggest gifts that helped me create and in that dream. But yeah, definitely balancing that with discernment and groundedness and truth. That's how you can access your authenticity versus you know, becoming porous to things around you.

44:45 It's not always easy to be the dreamer either, like it's it's it's definitely because yes, you're right, you nailed it, and I tend to be a little bit I've gotten, you know, I've owned the delusion, like I've just decided, and that takes a lot of you use the word courage. It takes a lot of courage to decide to just step into it and say, yes, I am a dreamer and I'm gonna I'm going to go I'm going to make it happen. And believing in something that doesn't exist yet is very scary. And we do it with the fear. Like you don't eliminate the fear, the fear is still there. I mean, I even I joked online before I got we got on here because I was nervous to talk to you, and I like, I'm like, why am I so nervous? Like we've been like internet essentially internet friends for a bit, and I don't know why I was nervous, but you know, we do it anyway. Like, and that's and that's where real growth happens, is when you can like, well you got the fear, but you're doing it anyway.

45:44 I think that's another great piece of advice, is like keep doing what you're you're scared of doing. That's like the easiest pathway to growth, right there. Yeah, easiest pathway to growth. It's definitely, I mean, not. What you're scared of. Yeah, it's easy is not the right word though, Like it's because it's hard. Honestly, it's hard, but like it's the most effective maybe it would be a better word, Like the most effective path of growth is to be doing it scared and doing it because it's not easy to show up and be the crazy person that believes that she can interview Alex Warren at Red Rocks, Like that's the that's like the manifestation that I'm putting out into the world right now, and it's very big and very like. People are like, what is her wife? She's so crazy with this? But I have reasons and they're grounded in a lot of truth, authenticity, and just a desire to, you know, show the world that it's possible to do the things that seem impossible, because impossible it's just a big word thrown around by small people. I could talk to you for so long.

46:46 You know what your personality type is? Your myers breaks? Oh my gosh, Ean FJ. I knew it. I'm an I NFJ. Yes, yes enneagram seven, which is the you know, goodness enthusiast that shocks nobody. And yeah, I suppressed it for a long time, like I thought, And honestly, it's part of why I started drinking, because I thought that I had to be present a certain way in order to be myself. Like I thought that if well, if she's drunk, then she's being That's that's how she is because she's drunk.

47:26 And it's just no that it did backfire tremendously in all the ways, but it was I can be who I am and be sober. I'm proud to say that I am who I am and I'm sober, and it's taken a level of bravery and courage to show up as this very real, very whimsical. You know, my son actually paid me the kindest thing when we were at Disney World a couple of weeks ago. He was like, Mom, I love that you're so childish. I was like, you know, some moms that I know and I'm friends with and adore would see that as an insult. They'd be like, what do you mean I'm childish? Like I am a grown up, and don't you talk to me that way.

48:07 And I thought it was the kindest, sweetest, most beautiful compliment, because yes, at Disney World, I turned into a twelve year old me who just was like everything was magic and I just was so so happy and it was overflowing. And my ten year old said that, and I was like, you know, I could see that as negative or I can see it as the compliment and the gift that it is because I have embraced that in her child so hard, and she's so grateful. Honestly, she's very grateful that that in her child is getting to explore and do the things that she always wanted to do. At the age of forty instead of twelve, you know, because I was too afraid back then. And that's not for lack of support. Like my mom always said, I was made for more. My mom always was my number one fan.

48:51 She always always, I mean from the day she named me Tyler because she thought that tie would look good in print. You know, the day that I was born, she already thought that I would be a writer. And you know, how cool is it that I've gotten to do that. But it's just it's really cool when I've just had I could talk to you for like forever, and I know our time is short, so I need I need to reel myself in and not forget to ask you one of my most favorite, most important questions, which is if I handed you a megaphone and like the world had to listen to you right now in this moment, what would you say? I would say that, I mean, the world that we're in right now is changing at a very rapid drastic pace. Yeah, and we are moving into a time of uncertainty and instability.

49:42 It's very shaky right now. But knowing that chaos provides this energy for both the destruction and new creation, it's important for us to to pore our attention and energy during the time and to things that can positively influence our future and our planet Earth. This is our home as a species. So you know what we choose to look at, to embody, to take action on to say, you know, whether it's in conversation with friends, co workers, all of this is actively influencing our futures. So be mindful and know that what you're doing right now you have an impact and an influence, and channel it into the future that you want to be part of, that you want to live in. You know, this destruction and creation energy is happening right now, so understand you know your place in that too as a human being.

50:51 And it's an opportunity, like you said, something really powerful because it's a chance for us to kind of level set and take something that seems very you know, messy and make it into something beautiful. And you know, that's kind of, in my opinion, a little bit of what you've done with the shadow work, turning it into the light work. So one more thing I want to ask is, you know what what is what are you most excited about? Like what if somebody want it? Like if somebody was going to ask you a question about this book and you could like guide the ship and have them ask you whatever question you wanted to answer. What would it be? Mm, like, what is this going to do for me?

51:35 And I think there's so much, so much that can be unlocked from yourself when you pay attention to your light and you nurture it, because your light is your energy force, it's it's your willpower, it's the life force, and you can channel it in a way where where it can serve you and it can serve the communities around you. In a time right now where there's so much like unconscious material circulating, fear, division, projective project projection, reactivity, there's a real impact in choosing to move with awareness instead of contributing to the same heaviness. It's light was never meant. Light was never meant to erase darkness entirely.

52:27 It was meant to help orient ourselves amongst the darkness. So yeah, light light work has gifted me with so much motivation and purpose and meaning. You coming out of a time where I was so heavy into shadow work and deep in that practice. There's light at the end of the tunnel, as we hope, and once you get there, it's beautiful. I mean, you can do so much with with the light that we all hold. Everyone has the spark. So when you feel like you're living in the gray, or you know you're in the tunnel and you don't see the end of it, know that you can practice nurturing and tending to this source of light, and once you see the spark, you can navigate so much better in life with it. But yeah, check out the Light Work Journal. It's available any of our books are sold.

53:27 It's formatted in the same way as the Shadow Work Journal, so it's a workbook. It's guided. There's different parts in it. There's more of an educational reading section in the beginning and introduction to light work, what light has meant in psychology and mythology and spirituality, and there's exercises. There's also interactive portions like QR codes you can scan with your phone. They link out to meditation, visualizations and even music that combines like the format of meditation. So it's a very immersive, immersive book, and I hope people will have the courage to dive in and cultivate their inner lights.

54:17 That's the thing. You've said. Something really cool about the tunnel and the light at the end of the tunnel. But the thing that I've realized working through the darkness is that we are the light. We can choose to be the light in that dark tunnel, and we have the capability of doing that. And that is such a gift and a blessing and something that I've come to through my faith and through you know, my belief in God and his yellow brick road path for me that I keep showing up and walking on, even though I don't always know what's going to happen, and the bricks sometimes like fall out from under me, and I keep showing up anyway because I've discovered and practiced and now can say with some level of confidence and joy that I have figured out how to be the light that I need. And I'm so grateful because it has a lot to do with people like you and the work that you've done and the work that you've shared. So thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here and for doing all of the hard work and all of the fun work and all of the things. I am so grateful And yeah, we'll see you next time friends on quick before you forget.

55:20 Thanks so much, tiy I appreciate you giving me the space to share authentically. And yeah, this conversation was lots of fun. I thought you too, so we might just have to do it again. Yeah, let's do it. Until then, We'll see you next time. Bye, thank you for being here with me today on Quick Before You Forget. Please like, share and subscribe as that helps the show so much and I really appreciate it. And I'll see you next time on Quick Before You Forget.