Aug. 17, 2026

Don't Lose Your Color: Staying Human in an AI World with Olivia Gambelin

Don't Lose Your Color: Staying Human in an AI World with Olivia Gambelin

Quick before you forget: The world doesn't need more perfection. It needs more you. AI ethicist, author, and responsible AI expert Olivia Gambelin joins me, Ty Schmidt, for a conversation that goes far beyond ChatGPT, automation, or the latest...

Quick before you forget: The world doesn't need more perfection. It needs more you.

AI ethicist, author, and responsible AI expert Olivia Gambelin joins me, Ty Schmidt, for a conversation that goes far beyond ChatGPT, automation, or the latest artificial intelligence tools. This meaningful conversation is about something much more personal to all of us: how to stay human in a world increasingly designed around efficiency.

Olivia explains AI ethics in a way anyone can understand, why your values should guide the way you use technology, and why you don't actually need AI in every part of your life.

Together, Olivia and I explore human-centered AI, creativity, imperfection, intuition, storytelling, music, connection, and the surprising return to analog experiences happening as artificial intelligence becomes more powerful.

Olivia also shares the childhood rainbow cape that became a symbol of imagination and courage, the career setback that ultimately led to her first book, Responsible AI, and why learning to trust herself changed the way she moves through uncertainty. If you're overwhelmed by AI, worried about falling behind, or simply wondering how to use technology without losing your creativity, authenticity, or humanity, this conversation is for you.

Because the future isn't only about what technology becomes. It's about who we choose to become alongside it.

Olivia's song of survival: That Old Pair of Jeans, Fatboy Slim

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And I kid you not. I have heard some of

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the most random professions asked the same exact question. It was.

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And I've had a financial analyst, I've had a nutritionist,

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I've had a lawyer, I've had a lot of artists.

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I've had a Buddhist prison chaplain, i had a yoga teacher.

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All ask the same question, so fascinating, wildly different. And

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they always ask what story do you want to tell yourself?

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What story are you going to tell about who you are?

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Olivia Gambling, Welcome to quick before you forget, Thanks so

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much having to hear TI. I am so excited and

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so grateful for your time today. Friends, Today I'm here

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with Olivia, an AI ethicist, helping organizations and individuals navigate

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one of the biggest shifts of our time, the rise

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of artificial intelligence. But this conversation isn't about fear or overwhelm.

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It's about understanding what's actually happening, what really matters, and

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how we embrace our humanity in a world that's changing

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faster than ever. Because the truth is AI is not

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the story we are, and I believe our story is

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our superpower. So today we're going to walk through yours Olivia, past, present,

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and future. Starting with a childhood memory or a person

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or a transition figure or something from your childhood that

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shaped to you became today.

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Okay, you're getting the first thing that comes to mind,

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which is probably not at all what you expected to hear,

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because I could tell stories about the first time I

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spoke on a stage, the first time I led any

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type of research or organization, or I was always the

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kid in the backyard that would convince other kids to

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play along with my make believes. So you could only

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imagine what I convinced kids to do, not in a

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bad way, mainly just like in weird dress up ways

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and running around the neighborhood half clothed, those fun things.

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But I think one of the core memory actually that

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popped up immediately when you were talking. Perhaps this is

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just where I met today and what's on my mind.

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I grew up when I was I don't know, two,

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three four years old, very very young formative years. I

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had a rainbow cape that I wore everywhere, and when

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I say everywhere, I mean everywhere. This thing just lived

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on me, sometimes with no other clothes. It was just

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the rainbow cape and these fun the little plastic princess

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heels that you had as kids. That it really heals that. Yep,

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that was my favorite outfit. Like I said, rainbow cape pack,

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plastic princess heals. Nothing else. That was my favorite outfit.

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Got it at least to run around the backyard. And

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I tell this story because I loved that cape. But

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the fun thing about it is it always took on

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a different shape or form for me, so I would

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I would sometimes I wore it around my head because

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I was a mermaid and I needed mermaid hair. Sometimes

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it was around my shoulders because I think I was

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flying those days, and then other days, you know, it's

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around my waist because I don't know, probably I was

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a hula dancer or something. But it was just it

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was this piece of real, tangible imagination that was brought

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to life for me. And I think the best part

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of it is I loved to talk. When I was little.

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That was always a problem, not necessarily a problem, but

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it was always my parents and relatives and anyone watching me.

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It was a game to try and figure out how

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to get me to sit still and sit still quietly

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didn't work well, So I would go to my parents

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with all of this crazy Rainbow Cape configuration. I think

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it's the best way to call it. It's like, oh, yeah, okay,

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here's today. I tell them this long, elaborate story about

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whatever was going on with the Rainbow Cape, and they

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would just sit there and take me very seriously, and

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they go, yep, that makes sense that okay, be careful,

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be home for dinner from your Mermaid adventure. We'll see

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you later. And I think that was a huge formative

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part of It's one of the core memories because I

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remember running around in this cape. I remember how much

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joy it brought me, and then I remember that it

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was taken seriously. It wasn't brushed off. It was just,

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oh yeah, sounds good, We'll see you later. Be safe.

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So what I'm hearing is you have a massive imagination. Yes,

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you're a dreamer, because the imagination and being a dreamer

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kind of like go hand in hand. You like, do

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you still like rainbows?

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I still love seeing rainbows every time I see when

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I send a picture to my mom.

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Oh see, that's so sweet, And then it's like I

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threw line right back to your childhood and she probably

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cries every time.

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Yes, she's crazyasily, but yes, same.

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I mean that's what because I would if I were

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your like, if I were your mom, I'd be like

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every time I'd get like a random rainbow. Like honestly,

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I actually have friends. It's funny that you should say

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rainbows because I actually have friends who send me rainbows

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when they see them, like kind of just all the time.

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So like your story about this rainbow cape is so

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special and like, honestly, I wonder what it represents for

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you now, like do you think do you do you

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ever like look into the rainbow? Like I don't know,

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how does it impact your creativity and your imagination today?

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So funny enough, it actually and I have my coach.

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I've worked with my coach for oh god, Tara has

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been four or five years something like that. She's just

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she's a solid pillar in my life now and I

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think she's part coach, part therapist at times. But when

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I was really struggling earlier earlier on with my business

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and just trying to figure out, how do I do sales?

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How do I do how do I do marketing? How

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do I wear all of these different hats? And still

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am me throughout all of it because a lot of

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sales and marketing I do well. What has now become

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thought leadership and professional speaking relies on me and me

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being the face of it, and me having to show

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up into situations where I'm in a room of two

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hundred execs and they're all in suit and high and

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staring me down. And I'm not a serious person. I

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am very quirky and full of energy in different directions,

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So how do I maintain that in a way that

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also can communicate what needs to be done? And Tara

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and I had this conversation early on about what kind

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of imagery I needed to help me in those moments

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a lot about I've learned a lot of techniques over

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the years working with her, just how to stay in

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the moment, be present, and be myself when I'm on stage.

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And one of the images that we kind of settled

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on was, okay, when I'm nervous for a stage, or

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when I'm worried about going into a negotiation, or you know,

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a lot of my work is I'm not a lawyer,

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but I think it would be very similar to mediation.

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Being an ethicis between all of this. So I'm in

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a lot of high, high intensity situations. She's like well,

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we'll just put on the rainbow cape. And so it's

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an image actually that I have when I'm nervous to

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go into any type of situation where i'm leading or speaking.

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Sometimes still to this day, I will put on my

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rainbow cape because it's kind of like not a piece

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of armor, but it's a piece of me. I Okay,

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I'm going to go walk into this room, and I'm

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going to craft the world that everyone else is going

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to join me in, and then we're going to go

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from there. Just like I used to to do with

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my rainbow cape, I crafted my world. This is the

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little piece of reality or imaginary reality that I was

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standing in that moment, and I can welcome people into

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that space with me so that we can then work

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together in the space that I've designed specifically for whatever

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reason we're working or whatever thing we need to work through.

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So I would say, probably in an unexpected way, Yeah,

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the rainbow cape still still lives on.

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It lives on in your heart. I mean, do you

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used to physically have it still?

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Yes, it is in my parents of course, as every

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everyone has a big plastic box with all of the

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random things from my childhood. That is promised one day

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when you have kids. Your kids are gonna have a

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lot of things that you probably don't even remember having,

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but we saved them for you. Don't worry. I do

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remember the cape, but it's vacuum sealed everything in there.

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But did she save the slippers too? The glass?

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Yes?

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Okay, good, yes, very sparkly.

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I think the sparkle's all off, but very sparkley.

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Love that so much. To blisters, but you know who

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cares if you're wearing a rainbow kape is made?

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Yeah?

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Yes, beauty is pain. Oh my goodness. So to pivot then,

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because like this was super fun to get us from

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then to now. But can you talk us a little

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bit through? Because not everybody has the honor of knowing

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you as well as I do already, So can you

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kind of talk us through, Like how did we get

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from rainbow cape and glitter shoes to you today?

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Well? Definitely some character development in there, clearly, So let's see.

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I'll give you the a bridge not a bridge sort

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of version here because I can definitely pull out the

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entire textbook on it. But long story short, I went

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to undergrad a study philosophy. I grew up in the

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Bay Area. So I always grew up around tech, and

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out of rebellion and frustration with the lack of asking why,

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I went and studied philosophy found the world of ethics,

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fell absolutely with it. I like to describe it as

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it's you know, how physicists will will look at laws

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of nature to understand the world around them. That's like

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ethics for me, understanding the laws of ethics and that's

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how I start to understand the world around me, specifically

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how people relate to each other and move throughout life.

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So fell absolutely in love with this field. Finished my

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undergrad promised myself I would come back to ethics as

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soon as I found something practical to do with it.

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I'm a very practical person, despite living in my imagination

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quite often. I then freelanced Gosh. I freelanced for a

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year or two in digital strategy and communications, mainly with

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not even mainly. I was always in tech or tech

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adjacent and it was a lot of how do I

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communicate a digital transformation or adopting a new technology either

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internal or external. Through that process, land on myself in

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Brussels as a data AC researcher on a contract. It

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was very that was a little random. It made sense generally.

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I try not to interrupt people on the show, like

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I really try hard, but like, I need to know Brussels.

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Like what led you to Like, Like that's like a

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big change from the Bay Area to Brussels.

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Yeah, I guess I skipped over some of that. I'm

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half Italian. When I finished my undergrad I actually moved

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to Rome, so all of that freelancing I did, and

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I was in Rome, the Brussels, and then up to Edinburgh, Scotland,

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so I was moving around as well. And I would

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basically pick a contract, one on site contract with a

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couple of clients in the background, and that was my

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spur of I want to see the world. I want

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to live in different places. So the Brussels part landed

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in that in that time. Hence I ended up in Brussels.

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And I can talk more about that too, But ran

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across the conversation around data ethics. It was the cheesy

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light bulb moment of well, that's something practical to do

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with ethics. And I'm already versed in the world of

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data and AI just really by nature of growing up

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in the Silicon Valley. It's taught since day one. It

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is part of your social life, it is a part

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of your studies, it is a part of any type

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of life that is part of it. So yeah, perfect,

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all right, here's my industry and here's my love and

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they come together. I'm going to do that. I did

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not look at career prospects, which was a good thing

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because back then AI ethicis didn't exist and I would

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have been highly discouraged, but instead being stubborn. But that's

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what I'm going to do. So in order to help

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gain credentials, I went and did a master's degree in

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AI ethics in Edinburgh, So now we've got Scotland coming

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into the picture. Finished that degree, obviously there's still no

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jobs as an AI ethicis, but there was work. I

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started noticing there were people looking looking for more research

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based work in this space, just starting to grapple with

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some of these questions. So I started a company. It

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was called Ethical Intelligence, and the first years of Ethical

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Intelligence were consulting. More think Tank moved into consulting space.

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At one point I had ninety different experts globally. We

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had representation in all seven continents, all specifically for AI ethics,

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and what became responsible AI. So I led that team

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for quite a while, and I reached a point where

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there's a difference in consulting between getting to do the

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work versus managing all of it. And I missed doing

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the work. I missed actually getting in there doing the

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research part instead of just doing project management and well

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a lot of marketing and sales at that point, and

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so I took a step back, scaled back the company.

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Ethical Intelligence still exists today. It's specifically focused on training

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an education. We have a community built behind it. Community

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is about three hundred strong now and right now we're

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focusing on AI literacy for non tactical professionals. But when

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I took a step back, I wrote my first book

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called Responsible AI, and that was one of the first

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pillar books out there specifically on this responsible AI space.

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This is when the industry term was just starting to

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get solidified. And since then I consult independently, so just me.

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I consult primarily actually with new heads and chiefs of

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AI as they're building out their AI teams. I will

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build out the responsible AI strategy and infrastructure, and then

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I do a lot of professional speaking and I'm currently

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working on my second book and I think that was

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not as long as it could have been, but it

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was definitely a lengthy explanation there.

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No, I appreciate it honestly because it's fast. Honestly, it's

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fascinating to me because you like without I don't know

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that you meant, but like you saw around a corner,

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and like, since you and I last spoke a couple

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of years ago, this whole AI thing has exploded beyond

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anything that I honestly thought possible. I'm sure you were

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more realistic about it always, but I was. I have

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I have been shocked to see just how quickly things

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have evolved. And it makes me wonder because I am

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a curious human. When you talk about like being an

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AI ethicis, like, what does that mean? Like on a practical.

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Level, So being an AI ethicis is let me let

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me try and describe it this way. We as humans,

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part of the human experience is to make and grapple

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with ethical decisions. It's just part of life. That's it.

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That's not a problem to solve, it's not something that

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needs to be glanced over. It's part of the experience.

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It's how we learn as well. Now, what happens when

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it comes to an AI ethicis It's not that I

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am a morally superior person that's done all of this

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research and I will tell you the right and wrong

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and the arbitrar of truth. Now, all it means is

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I have been equipped with frameworks, with mental models, with

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techniques and tools that help in aiding that ethical decision making.

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Ethical decision making is kind of like a muscle that

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you build up over time where you go through different

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context and experiences, you learn from them, you adjust your

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decision making, you understand how to better align your decisions

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with your values, and so over time, as an ethicis,

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I'm building up that muscle so that it's like second

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nature for me to not only move through those decisions,

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but also help assist others as well as surface the

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key decisions. What often happens in AI is we get

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so caught up in the building of the technology because

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it is quite complex and it does take a lot

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of focus, that we're missing key ethical decisions that if

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made better I'm going to say stronger, then it would

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create a stronger product, it would create an AI the

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better aligance with our needs as people. So, as an ethicis,

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I think the easiest way to describe it is you

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have your values, and a lot of are actually the

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majority of our of our decisions as humans, and the

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actions that we take revolve around our value sets, either

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our individual one, our family ones, the ones of our society,

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of our organizations, so on. Values are these huge driving factor.

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They're kind of like forces of nature. And as an ethicist,

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all I'm doing is looking at the decisions as an

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AI ethesis. I'm looking at the decisions and actions being

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made during AI development, both the actual technical side, but

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also the organizational side, these socioeconomic side, and looking at

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how analyzing and assessing how to better align those decisions

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with those values just so it worked in alignment, instead

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of trying to go against the grain of something that's

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so natural to us, actually run with it and help

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us move forward.

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So what are the risks involved if we don't think

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about all this thoughtfully and ethically.

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I'm trying to think of a fun metaphor here to help.

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Let's say that you are okay, I'll use it. I'll

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use another fun story one a little bit for my

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00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:37.960
childhood here. Again. So I'm left handed, right, I'm left handed,

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the absolute bane of my existence, is right handed scissors.

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I cannot cut with them. I absolutely hate them. They

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drive me insane. Growing up, especially in kindergarten, you're tested

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on can you cut in a straight line? Which I

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could not, not because I didn't have hand eye coordination,

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but because I had right handed scissors. And it was

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driving me crazy. And the teachers were like, what's going

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on here? Because you're totally fine, You're you're doing great

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in all these other subjects, you know, coloring and pattern matching, like,

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you're doing great everywhere else, but you can't cut for shit, Sorry,

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I swore hair on that way. And finally, you know,

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they're they're trying to help me. They're they're they're they're

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explaining how does scissor how to cut things in like

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very conceptual ways, and they're making me watch videos and

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they're trying everything to figure out how to get this

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kid to cut in a straight line. Finally, they watched

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me one day and they're like, you are left handed

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and I'm like, yeah, this isn't new. They're like, well, no,

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wonder you can't cut. So we got left handed scissors

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handed me them, and all of a sudden they're like, yep,

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there we go. You're totally fine. So I tell this

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story because when it comes to designing and developing AI,

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let's say we're building these solutions, we're deploying them, we're

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bringing them in house into our organizations, we're bringing them

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into our lives, and we're using them, and everything's like, well,

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it's kind of working. It's kind of working. It sort

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of fits in places, it kind of gets us to

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where we want to go. But it's not entirely a

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straight path. You know, we needed we needed X, Y

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and Z, and we're getting you know, the X, Y

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and B sort of out of this process, but it's

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not quite heading the mark. And then all of a

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sudden we look at it and we go, oh, right,

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it's because we're all left handed. We all have these

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these these values that drive a lot of our decision

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making that we weren't considering before, that we were blind to.

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So of course we're not able to actually get to

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the end goal, to the purpose of this technology because

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we've completely forgot a huge key factor that felt very

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small but actually made an entire difference in the outcome.

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And that's that's really the risk when it comes to

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not considering values in the world. Of AIS, we're not

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considering such a huge facet of what it means to

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be human, and that means we're going to stunt any

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type of development or implementation. AI is always just going

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to be kind of working instead of actually working with

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what we need. If ethics isn't a part our values

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and ethics aren't a part of that, those conversations.

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It can all feel very overwhelming. As I'm sure you

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were overwhelmed with the scissors I'm thinking about. It reminds

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me a little bit of like sneakers when you go hiking,

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and like you get a new pair of sneakers to

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go hiking, and your back is hurting and your feet

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are hurting, and you have blisters ten minutes in, and

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you're like, what I've trained for this? What is wrong

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with me? And you're wearing the wrong shoes is what's wrong?

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You are not what's wrong, You're wearing the wrong shoes.

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So I know that, like the whole I'm actually pretty

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sure that this question that I'm about to ask will

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be outdated by the time this episode airs because of

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how fast everything's moving. But for the people that do

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feel overwhelmed by basically everything you just said, now, what

382
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:16.119
do they need to understand now? Like right now, in this.

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Moment, I would say that this question is not going

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to be outdated because it is a question that we've

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been asking of AI since at least the last ten years,

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even in higher volume in the last five since we

387
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had chat GPT come out. But this is a question

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that we continue to grapple with, and it is one

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that I am in the process of hopefully starting to

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address in my next book. But I would say at

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this point in time, what you need to know is

392
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.279
the technology doesn't matter as much as your need does.

393
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.519
Let me break that down. You can have the world's

394
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.400
fanciest AI and there's some pretty snazzy AI out there,

395
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:05.480
and it's fascinating technology. I mean when you dig into it,

396
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.240
and I'm not a I don't code, but I do understand.

397
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I can speak techie, I can speak the language of

398
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:14.839
engineers and figure out what's going on. I just don't.

399
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.559
I don't speak a coding language, I think is the

400
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:21.240
right way to put it. When you dig down into it,

401
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:26.119
it's fascinating what people have built. It's it's it's quite

402
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.960
beautiful in some ways. Sometimes I would call it an art,

403
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:36.440
but even if you have this beautifully engineered, perfectly created

404
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.720
AI that's got all the bells and whistles, it's not

405
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:43.160
going to do anything for you unless you actually know

406
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:47.119
your need to start with. And so with all of

407
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:51.039
that overwhelm, what I want people to focus on. What

408
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.559
I try and stress is know your need first before

409
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.680
you turn to the technology. By all means play around

410
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with it. That's a need itself, the need to play

411
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:04.279
the need to explore and see what's possible. But if

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00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.960
you don't have a need for AI, then you don't

413
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.319
have a need for it, and you don't have to

414
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:12.799
use it. That I think is not said enough. It

415
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:14.599
doesn't need to be a part of every single facet

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00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.920
of your life. It can be a part of select

417
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.119
facets that you have found a specific problem or need

418
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:24.839
that you want solved with that is solvable by AI,

419
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.920
and you are intentionally bringing it into your life, into

420
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:31.839
your business and so on. But that's up to you.

421
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.240
You have to go come to the technology saying this

422
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:37.000
is what I need. Meet me here, not go to

423
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:38.680
the tech and be like, Okay, I'm going to try

424
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.640
and fit to this. It's not gonna work.

425
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:47.720
As AI gets smarter, what becomes more important about remembering

426
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:49.160
our humanity.

427
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:57.279
H oh. I like this question. There's so many things,

428
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:03.200
but I think if I was to summarize all of it,

429
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:05.640
I love that you're asking me this right now because

430
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.839
a little bit of background. I am four months into

431
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:16.279
book research and this next book, the next book is

432
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.720
called not Every Solution has a Problem, which with that

433
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:22.720
title starts to make sense of what soapbox I'm on

434
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:27.799
right now. But as I'm mid of mid research, I

435
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.880
feel like I'm surfacing all of these factors about humanity

436
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.079
that are so essential just to being human, the experience

437
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.039
that we're never necessarily problems to solve in the first place.

438
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.160
And now I'm in the process of looking at that

439
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.279
in the context of AI and how this all works together.

440
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.359
And you know this is a teaser, but what it

441
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:54.440
all keeps coming back down to is in this age

442
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:56.640
of AI and as AI continues to I'm going to

443
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:59.400
put it in quotes yet smarter because it's smart in

444
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.839
a very narrow definition, not necessarily smart in how we

445
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.920
would describe a person. We can go back to that

446
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:10.359
that as AI get smarter, The thing that I want

447
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:16.400
people to remember the most is maybe not even remember

448
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:23.319
but feel or have as a part of their perspective

449
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.480
is a sense of respect and awe for what it

450
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.440
means to be human. At the end of the day,

451
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:35.279
we're not just our intelligence. We're really really complex. There

452
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.960
are so many different moving factors of being human. There's

453
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.200
things that we do that don't make sense that our

454
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.000
counterproductive if you put it into the world of AI.

455
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.640
You know, AI is designed to be perfect. Yet as humans,

456
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:52.839
imperfection is something we actually are drawn towards and that

457
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.079
we thrive in because it gives us freedom to move

458
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:02.359
around and explore. So those already are two clashing factors,

459
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.400
and it's not that AI does it better. It's that

460
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.480
we need to maintain that respect and awe for ourselves,

461
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.039
for the people sitting in front of across the table

462
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:16.839
from us, for our communities, for just the whole human experience.

463
00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:18.720
When you start to look at it, you w way

464
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:26.079
gone down. That's cool, that's fascint that's all right. I'm

465
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:28.160
starting to ramble a little bit here, but one of

466
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.599
the questions that I'm asking in these interviews that I'm

467
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.039
conducting for book research, I ask people what's sacred to

468
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:36.880
their work, and I use the word sacred for a

469
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:43.279
very specific reason, not for religious or ethical or spiritual reasons,

470
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:47.839
but actually sacred to me means something that is of

471
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:51.440
value without having to be defined why. It just is.

472
00:27:51.799 --> 00:27:56.200
It is something important and that's the important part. And

473
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:01.200
I think there are factors of humanity, of being human

474
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.200
that are sacred by that definition. We don't have to

475
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:07.559
explain it. We don't have to explain why we crave connection.

476
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.799
We just do. That's something that we need and it

477
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.960
is important because it is important. So it's factors like that,

478
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.839
and when we actually start to look at those, that

479
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:22.839
is something that is so inspiring about humanity. So yeah,

480
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:25.559
we're okay, I'm coming back around full circle. Yeah, we're

481
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:31.160
creating this technology that's fascinating and really freaking cool, but

482
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:36.119
don't forget that this all comes from us, from humans,

483
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.880
and that being alive and being on this earth and

484
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.200
doing who knows what with it is also really freaking cool,

485
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.319
and not to forget that.

486
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:49.680
So how do we do that, Like, how do we

487
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.920
make sure that we don't lose connection, presence and meaning

488
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.799
in a world that is increasingly automated.

489
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:03.160
It's hard, Yeah, it's definitely hard. I'm watching right now.

490
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:05.000
I get asked all the time, what trends are you

491
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.480
watching in AI. I'm not really watching trends in the

492
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:13.119
technology now. I'm actually watching trends in people and how

493
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:17.400
humans are interacting both with the technology but also what

494
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.799
we're doing in response to In response to AI development,

495
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:26.039
one of the main human trends that I'm really seeing

496
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:31.799
become prevalent is this return to the analog. This almost

497
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.200
not necessarily rejection of the technology, but this pushback of

498
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.359
hold on, I want to go outside for three hours

499
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:44.480
today and lay in the grass. Or I Oh, musicians

500
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:46.440
I've been I've talked to a couple a good chunk

501
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:52.279
of musicians lately, and ones that have had the musical

502
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:58.279
instruments that are more digital, so like techno ELECTEDIM, they're

503
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:02.880
going out purposely and learning really random instruments because they're like,

504
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.039
I want to be able to do this. AI can't

505
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.440
play the obo or the saxophone, I'm going to play it.

506
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:14.559
And or like writers, I as a writer myself, I'm

507
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:19.480
talking with other writers and we have this conversation of yeah,

508
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.680
Chap GPT so to speak, made us better writers because

509
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.279
we're not using it to improve our writing, but we're

510
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.799
actually tired of all of the monochromatic AI slop out there,

511
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:36.079
that we're pushing our voices in different ways that we

512
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.279
probably wouldn't have prior to AI out of fear of

513
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.079
just going to outside the box. And now it's no,

514
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:44.880
we want to be as far outside that box. So

515
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.359
you know that this is written by a human. So

516
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:55.160
I'm seeing this craving and this surge back towards parts

517
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.599
that matter and parts that matter about about our day

518
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:05.200
to day about being human. But at the end of

519
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:07.400
the day, it is hard because it comes back to

520
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:12.480
you and I think, all right, I'm going to try

521
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.400
something that I've picked up in this book research that

522
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:20.000
I haven't really been that I've been workshopping. But one

523
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.160
of the themes that keeps coming up in a lot

524
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.640
of my research is around storytelling and the importance of

525
00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.359
the stories that we tell ourselves. And I kid you not,

526
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:34.359
I have heard some of the most random professions asked

527
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.920
the same exact question. It was. I've had a financial analyst,

528
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.599
I've had a nutritionist, I've had a lawyer, I've had

529
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.640
a lot of artists. I've had a Buddhist prison chaplain,

530
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.319
i had a yoga teacher, all ask the same question,

531
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:53.640
so fascinating, wildly different, and they always ask what story

532
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.839
do you want to tell yourself? What story are you

533
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:58.799
going to tell about who you are? And that's what

534
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.640
it comes down to. When we're looking at how do

535
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.319
I find the courage to go a little bit against

536
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.680
the grain where it's not even against the grain. I

537
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.400
think people don't realize how much everyone else, how much

538
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:16.640
their neighbor is craving this same return back to the simple,

539
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.119
the simply at complex parts of being human. We're just

540
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:21.960
afraid to say it because we don't want to fall behind.

541
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:28.799
I think if I lost a bit of my train

542
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:30.000
of thought there, I got really excited.

543
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.519
Well maybe I can get you back, because what you're

544
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:38.240
getting at I think maybe is that like the Rise

545
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:43.599
of AI is kind of strong arming, forcing us to

546
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.920
get really introspective and answer what it really means to

547
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:52.680
be human? Yep, like simply put like that's and isn't

548
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.680
that fascinating? And I think you mean you're you're researching

549
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:01.279
it for your book, and I I hope maybe we

550
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.559
can get back to what you were thinking. But as

551
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.599
a as a journey there, I'm wondering more about this,

552
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:09.559
about what you talked with the musicians about because for me,

553
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:13.359
I talk about Quick Before You Forget is a podcast

554
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.799
built to help people build their unreal life from the

555
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:21.319
ground up, using tools like music, mindset, and movement to

556
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.640
remember who you are while you build who you become.

557
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:27.799
So music is one of the tools in the tool belt,

558
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.039
so to speak. And I'm wondering, like, because I mean,

559
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.960
obviously the EDM folks you know said are learning different

560
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.839
instruments and stuff, which is super like I that blows

561
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:37.799
my mind and also makes so much sense. But also like,

562
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.720
picturing an EDM person playing a saxophone is so fun.

563
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.160
To me exactly. It's a vibe, total vibe.

564
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.119
Oh my gosh, I'm losing it. Such a vibe. So

565
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:51.519
what's the most interesting thing you learned from the musicians

566
00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:55.839
so far? Without spoiling you know, the chapter in the book.

567
00:33:56.119 --> 00:34:07.920
Sorry, yeah, no, no, it's okay, it's okay, I'll share this one.

568
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:13.719
It's not necessarily directly with music, but it's it's actually

569
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:16.960
a good friend of mine who I've guilt tripped a

570
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:20.599
lot of my friends for some of these first interviews.

571
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.880
But one of my good friends, he's an Italian Iranian

572
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:30.519
musician fascinating background, has lived in all these different places,

573
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:36.880
especially what's going on in Iran right now. He produces

574
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:42.440
a lot of music to support his people, So just

575
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.159
beautiful ways in the way that he approaches music. He

576
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.920
approaches it both as something political but something healing and

577
00:34:51.039 --> 00:35:03.119
something written to help inspire and give awareen miss and

578
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.679
he said something that still catches, that still sits in

579
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:11.119
my mind and now I look for because he's he's

580
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:13.360
got he's got a big I say all this, he's

581
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:16.960
got he's got a big online following and in person,

582
00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:19.000
but he's got a big audience. Basically, that's the right

583
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:23.840
way to say it. During the interview, he starts complaining,

584
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:30.119
He's like, I really miss the crappy uh social media comments.

585
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.639
He's like, I miss it when they were all these

586
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.480
misspellings and like weird, weird choices and ones they kind

587
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.000
of look like crazy people ranting. He's like, I missed those.

588
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:44.880
Now it just feels like everyone's copy pasting from AI

589
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.840
and it's all too perfect and it all just sounds

590
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.760
the same. And his whole think, I mean a lot

591
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:54.360
of a lot of his music is based off of

592
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:58.280
what his audiences are going through in that moment. He

593
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.880
again has a very he has a strong community behind

594
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.159
his music. He has a strong community both in Italy

595
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:08.800
and Iran and now in the States, and so he's

596
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:13.199
very receptive to what his audience is going through and

597
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:18.559
communicates and he finds inspiration for his music through comments,

598
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:23.639
through connecting with people, and he's like, well, I miss that.

599
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.800
I feel like that got robbed because everyone felt like

600
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.599
they needed to be perfect when really the thing that

601
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.480
I loved about it was the imperfection of it. And

602
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:36.000
that's really been sticking with me of that, and so

603
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.440
so yeah, now he just goes onto the streets and

604
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.239
talks to random people to get similar similar imperfection, because

605
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.320
that's that's where his inspiration for his music thrives.

606
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:49.960
That sounds so fun. What is his name?

607
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:51.559
Fam and sleepy?

608
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.480
Okay, Well, we'll have to shout him out in the

609
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.039
show notes for sure, and I will follow him on

610
00:36:57.480 --> 00:36:59.760
in all the places because he sounds like a fascinating

611
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:02.480
person and that I would love to know better. Do

612
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:05.360
you have like music in your life that makes you

613
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:09.079
feel grounded? Like something you know? I've been asking my

614
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:12.800
friends on the show, like, is there a song of

615
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:15.639
survival that you turn to when things are hard that

616
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:18.199
you just like need like It helps ground you and

617
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:19.519
bring you back to the present moment.

618
00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:23.960
I would say, first of all, music in general. Yes,

619
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.760
I don't think I could do what I do without music.

620
00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.840
I have specific playlists for specific moods and things, and

621
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:34.440
I do have a playlist that is full of songs.

622
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:39.280
When I am down on myself or when I am

623
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.239
frustrated or stuck, I go to this playlist and I

624
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.719
go for a walk, and I have my to come

625
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:50.079
to Jesus, Come to Olivia moments of hold On Girl.

626
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:56.199
It's not that complicated, it's not that serious. And the song, though,

627
00:37:56.679 --> 00:37:59.039
the specific song that's followed me throughout my entire life

628
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:05.440
that I continuously return to, that is I don't know

629
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:07.519
it like an old friend because it's taken on so

630
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.920
many different forms and meanings throughout the years. But no

631
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.960
matter where I am in life, it always carries some

632
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.639
meaning for me. I think you're probably gonna laugh. I

633
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:18.719
don't even know if you know this song. Do you

634
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:19.800
know fat Boy Slim?

635
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.519
Yeah, yeah, Okay.

636
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.639
It's one of his niche songs, and it is that

637
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.840
old pair of genes by Fat Boy Slim.

638
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:31.599
I love that so much, would you be willing to

639
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:33.519
share your playlist with us? Like, can we put it

640
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:35.760
in my show notes so that people can can see

641
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.440
or if not, that's okay, Like if it's private and personal,

642
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.960
I totally respect that, but I think it's.

643
00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.639
Taken Bud, I can share it. It is a wacky playlist.

644
00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.239
It is. I think there's there's some in your fields

645
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:50.679
kind of songs that are that are deep and emotional

646
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.760
and that I've got uh oh, I've got got Golden

647
00:38:53.840 --> 00:39:03.960
from the the the the Korean anime that pop.

648
00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:07.559
Yes, the Golden song from it that one I can

649
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:08.039
hear it.

650
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:11.559
That's also on that playlist. So I love it.

651
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:12.480
It's eclectic.

652
00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:13.840
Yes, it's a real.

653
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:18.239
Love that so much on every level. And I think

654
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.920
what's honestly, we're talking a lot about humanity today, and

655
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.679
I think what's fascinating to me is, you know, sometimes

656
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.360
I hold back with the music question because somebody tells

657
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.159
me beforehand that like I don't really care about music

658
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.000
too much, like we don't need to go there. It's

659
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.960
happened a couple of times, but for the most part,

660
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.440
every single human that I've had on the show lights

661
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.639
up when it's time to talk about music. They're like,

662
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.360
you know, it's like candy time, you know, like snap time.

663
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.719
It's it's so great and I think that it's really

664
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.079
a reflection of kind of what you were saying about

665
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:51.360
getting back to the basics of humanity a little bit,

666
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.599
and like just you know, we think about like how

667
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.119
we connect and how we heal through music. It's just

668
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:58.559
it's such a cool thing, and so thank you for

669
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:00.599
you know, it's not you're like going to laugh for

670
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:04.039
it's too eclectic. No, because it's actually been really cool

671
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:06.519
to see I have. I have one friend in particular

672
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.920
who I've made fairly recently who's become a huge fan

673
00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.960
of the show, and she recently, on one of her

674
00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:15.880
Instagram stories shared a song by Yama, which it's why

675
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:19.360
A I Am A and my friend Rushie was episode

676
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:21.440
three or four and she shared and it ended up

677
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.320
being because Rushie talked about Yama and I'm like, this

678
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.159
is exactly why I'm asking this question. It's so fun

679
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.440
and I'm grateful. So I know, I know this is

680
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:33.039
not that hard because you're not that much older than this,

681
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:35.239
But what would you tell twenty two year old you

682
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:36.159
if you.

683
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:40.119
Could, Oh, let's see, because you.

684
00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:42.199
Have lived a crazy life. I mean, like all those

685
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.280
different places and all those different people and experiences. So

686
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:47.119
I'm just curious.

687
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:50.519
I do I do joke. I have crammed a lot

688
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:54.159
of life into into this past decade, that's for sure,

689
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:59.679
and the one before that. Yeah, I got what I

690
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:04.519
tell twenty two year old Olivia. I think I would

691
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.920
tell her to, you know, hold on, buckle up, this

692
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.079
this is gonna be just go for it. You know.

693
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.719
I'm not There's nothing I would change. There's nothing I

694
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:23.920
would change other than not change. But I think what

695
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.679
I would want her to know or to tell her

696
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:34.920
would be I think trust yourself would be something that

697
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:38.079
comes to mind. There not that I don't, but I

698
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:41.639
speaking in my coach again. We talk about this all

699
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:46.440
the time. I'm definitely a very intuition driven person. But

700
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:48.639
what I usually do is I get an intuition or

701
00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:51.320
I get a gut feeling, and then I circle around

702
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.800
it for way too long. I'm like, oh, maybe I'll

703
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:55.159
do this, and maybe I'll do this, and I just

704
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:56.880
keep coming back to it and back to it, and

705
00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.880
then finally I will come back to whatever the idea

706
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:02.679
as the direction and go okay, I'm going to do this,

707
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.000
and every single time my coach Chare was like, finally,

708
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:08.360
I was tired of the circles we know. She's like,

709
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.599
I can predict probably a few months out to what

710
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:13.920
decision you're going to take because you already have it.

711
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:15.639
You just kind of go in circles around it. And

712
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.280
it's something I've been working on is to decrease the

713
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.760
amount of circles that I do until I come back

714
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:24.800
to trust and move forward with whatever that got feeling was,

715
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:27.440
because it always leads me in the direction that I

716
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:30.480
need to go. And so I think I think it's

717
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:33.880
important that I've done those circles and I've questioned things,

718
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:35.480
but I think I would tell twenty two year old

719
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.159
Olivia just to take a deep breath, that you know,

720
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:44.599
to trust that all of the decisions will lead me

721
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:48.679
somewhere and that I will be take it like I

722
00:42:48.760 --> 00:42:50.280
will be able to take care of myself, I will

723
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:51.599
be able to take care of the people around me

724
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:54.960
that when I need things the most, they come through it.

725
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:59.760
Just to trust where life is going and take a

726
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:03.440
look little bit of the the fear burden I think

727
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:07.920
that I had earlier on off of her shoulders still

728
00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:09.639
Mikero go through hell, she's got to learn a lot,

729
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:14.840
but not I don't think I needed as much fear

730
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:20.440
factor behind it that I've learned to quiet. Now.

731
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:24.719
There's all kinds of stories that I want to talk

732
00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:28.000
and dig into with that, because I have a lot

733
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:29.599
of thoughts on that, but we're short on time, so

734
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.760
I'm going to keep it reeled in and ask you

735
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.199
a You said something pretty cool, which is like you

736
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:39.480
wouldn't actually change anything, which makes me wonder if you

737
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.280
have had like an unreal moment honestly for good or

738
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:46.599
for bad, that happened when it happened, and it was

739
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:50.679
like shocking, startling whatever that you realized later happened for

740
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:52.360
you instead of to you.

741
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:58.480
Hmm. I think you described a lot of my twenties actually,

742
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:06.760
and just that statement, there were so many moments where okay,

743
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.920
let me give you a good one. Actually, I just

744
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:11.360
sort through a lot there real quick.

745
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:13.480
But it did great, Thank you.

746
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.320
I'm just going with the first ones that come to mind.

747
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:28.519
One of the how really jarring ones was right right

748
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.400
as we were coming out of the first year of COVID,

749
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:37.719
first a second year of COVID, something like that. I again,

750
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.199
I'm still running Ethical Intelligence at this point in Ethical Intelligence, right,

751
00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:44.760
I still run Ethical Intelligence, still running Ethical Intelligence as

752
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:48.960
a consultancy. And as any consultant knows, it is feast

753
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.719
or famine. So you either have too much, too many

754
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.920
projects on, or you are trying to figure out how

755
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:59.800
to run that gap in between. And we had already

756
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:03.800
been hit by COVID because a lot of the marketing

757
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.480
and sales was done by me in person, and then

758
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:09.320
a lot of our work was done in person too,

759
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.239
so it completely rocked everything, and companies all over the

760
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:19.760
place scaled back budgets to to help protect and so

761
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:21.840
a lot of our projects had gotten cut then. So

762
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.119
I had just gotten us through COVID. I had just

763
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:28.559
gotten us through and work was starting to come back,

764
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.559
and I was like, all right, I've somehow run that

765
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.159
gauntlet and got us through a very very tumultuous time.

766
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:38.440
Because it was still a young company. This isn't We're

767
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:42.079
not in McKenzie. We don't have ridiculous budgets that were

768
00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.519
that we could ride ride the cotails from this is

769
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:49.960
This was still a young company. And as getting that hope,

770
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.119
we had a great we had a whole oh gosh,

771
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:58.639
portfolio of projects coming coming online. We were about to

772
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:02.159
go through our next round of of sizeable work that

773
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:06.000
was going to both carry us but also put us

774
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:09.719
into that kind of feast point of time and actually

775
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:13.480
be able to move forward again. And then we hit

776
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:17.039
the tech layoffs. And I don't know if for background

777
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.239
context for people that don't know, right after COVID, about

778
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:24.119
a year or two after, there were massive rounds of

779
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.760
tech layoffs, massive rounds because of all of the kind

780
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:33.440
of bloating hiring that had happened both prior and during COVID,

781
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:37.760
And it just so happened that the first teams that

782
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.880
got cut were all the ones that we had contracts with.

783
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.480
So we went from having a portfolio that was about

784
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:47.639
to carry us to nothing. And I remember I got

785
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.039
those calls all within a span of a week, and

786
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.280
I sat there. I was like, I don't know what

787
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.480
to do. This is I don't know what to do,

788
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:03.679
And in that moment, it was just this, Oh God,

789
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.639
I don't think I can do this. And I'm so

790
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.559
glad that that moment happened because it showed me a

791
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:14.159
few things. I was able to turn to my team

792
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:18.679
and we made plans and I helped find I helped

793
00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:22.639
them find jobs, and we figured out how to make

794
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:26.599
things work. Basically, I put I basically put the company

795
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:29.119
on ice for about a year because I hit the

796
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:30.719
point where I was like, I can't, I need to

797
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:35.039
step away. And I had an amazing team that supported

798
00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:36.800
me through that, and I'm still still good friends with

799
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:39.800
a lot of them. I helped help them go and

800
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.679
find jobs. I made sure that they were taken care of,

801
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:44.440
and then I put everything on ice, and I was

802
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.400
going to actually take I don't know, six months off

803
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.480
or something, just to try and take a deep breath.

804
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.800
And as soon as I paused, I got contacted by

805
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.760
my first publisher and they out and asked if I

806
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:03.719
want to write a book. And I because I wasn't

807
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.920
running the company, because I wasn't caught up in the

808
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:10.760
day to day, and because I had all of this

809
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:15.119
experience basically in an industry that didn't exist yet, and

810
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:16.480
I was getting asked to write a book on it,

811
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:20.519
and I say, yeah, I can do that. And that

812
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.519
book changed the entire trajectory of where my career is

813
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.800
at today. So it happened for me, I would say,

814
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:29.639
because now I'm in a much. I'm in a place

815
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:34.199
where I work with amazing teams and I have amazing

816
00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:40.840
people around me. But I'm not caught up in the grueling, emotional,

817
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:47.639
grueling cyclone that is running a consultancy. I'm now doing

818
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:52.039
the work that I love. And yeah, retrospectively, that was

819
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:55.079
a great moment to happen. Scary, but a great moment.

820
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:57.679
Yeah, isn't that funny how that always seems to happen

821
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.000
that way with the fear and excitement being the same

822
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.519
chemical in your brain by the way, as you probably know,

823
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.440
And we get to choose what happens you know next,

824
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.639
and from something that I know because I follow you,

825
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:11.039
and I followed you on social media for quite a while.

826
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:14.000
Being an author was always your dream, Like you always

827
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.360
wanted to be an author, So like having your dream

828
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:19.079
come true in what seemed like a fugue of awfulness.

829
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:22.719
Is this beautiful, beautiful way to almost end the episode.

830
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:26.280
But before we do, I have one more question, which

831
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:27.960
is well, two more if we have time, but one

832
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:34.199
more specifically is the megaphone moment. So if I handed

833
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:37.840
you a megaphone right now, and like, for some weird reason,

834
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.199
everybody in the world had to listen to you for

835
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:42.000
like thirty to sixty seconds.

836
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:47.719
What would you say, Oh, okay, I think it comes

837
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:54.079
back to something I was talking about before, and it's

838
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:57.159
just where where my mind is in my research and

839
00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.800
what I want to do right now. It's all coming

840
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:04.159
back to, hey, okay, we've got this fancy technology, but

841
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:08.800
don't forget in this process that you are a human being.

842
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:10.440
In there parts to being human that aren't going to

843
00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:12.960
make sense, that matter to you for reasons that you

844
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:16.119
can't explain, and that's that's the reason you're here. That's

845
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.639
the whole point of it. We don't need technology to

846
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:23.880
find purpose for us. We don't need AI to help

847
00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:27.960
us connect with our neighbor. We need to be vulnerable

848
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:32.000
with each other, with ourselves. We need to embrace imperfection

849
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.280
and a sense of play and create space for us

850
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:36.400
to be able to do that. All of these pieces

851
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:40.239
are so uniquely human and matter at the end of

852
00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:47.960
the day, and that's a good thing. That's that's that's

853
00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:50.199
the whole point of it. That's why we're here. So

854
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:56.400
don't lose that sense of on respect for being a human.

855
00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:00.320
It's a messy business, but it's it's something that is

856
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:01.400
on inspiring.

857
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.519
So inspiring that it reminds me of a moment that

858
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:09.239
I actually was reflecting on earlier before we got talking

859
00:51:09.440 --> 00:51:13.079
about Andrew McMahon. He's a musician that I really love,

860
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:17.239
and Swim is my song of survival, and he performed

861
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:19.960
a song at a very pivotal moment in my life,

862
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:26.119
wearing a light up rainbow cape and thinking that we

863
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:28.559
need to like, we need to get one, like we

864
00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:30.880
need you and I we both need that light up

865
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.079
I need to I need to ask Andrew, Hey, Andrew,

866
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:35.800
where did we get Where did the light up cape

867
00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:38.079
come from? Because we I think Liviy and I both

868
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:40.519
need it to remind us of every literally everything you

869
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:43.960
just said. So, Olivia, thank you for your time. I'm

870
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:46.480
so grateful. I'm so grateful for the energy and for

871
00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:49.960
the information and for the level set on something that

872
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:53.199
can feel very like hard to understand for people. And

873
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:54.920
I want to ask, because we do have a couple

874
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:57.239
more seconds, is there anything else that I didn't ask

875
00:51:57.320 --> 00:51:59.119
that you want to share? Obviously, I know you're working

876
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:00.920
on book two and it's going to be amazing and

877
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:04.000
everybody needs to pre order it. What else? What else

878
00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:05.679
can you tell us about what's going on with you?

879
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:10.559
Oh gosh, what else is going on with me? I

880
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:13.400
don't know. I got a lot of I'm I'm at

881
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.480
a pivotal point again where I've done a lot of

882
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:22.000
work in AI and I found it fascinating and AI

883
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:25.159
is complex, but it's really not that complex at the

884
00:52:25.239 --> 00:52:27.480
end of the day. I think, actually that's probably a

885
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:29.960
message for people too. You don't need a technical background.

886
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:32.400
If someone tells you that you don't understand AI, they

887
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.199
don't understand AI. You have ever your capacity to be

888
00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:39.079
able to understand it. And I think being someone that

889
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.679
has worked so long in AI, I think it says

890
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:46.000
a lot that now I'm coming full circle and coming

891
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:48.119
back to now the interesting part all along has been

892
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.239
the person has been the human the people using it,

893
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.039
the people building it. That's the interesting part. The text's cool,

894
00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:56.960
but it's the people that are worth it at the

895
00:52:57.039 --> 00:53:00.559
end of the day. And that's the pivotal point where

896
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:02.800
my career is kind of taking a turn at the

897
00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:04.440
moment of a new focus.

898
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:08.039
So that's it, Amy, We all need to be reminded

899
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.079
of every single day. So thank you again. I appreciate

900
00:53:11.119 --> 00:53:13.440
you so so much, and we'll see you next time

901
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:14.760
on Quick Before You Forget.

902
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.800
Thank you, Ty, that was really fun.

903
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:20.320
Thank you for being here with me today on Quick

904
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:23.639
Before You Forget. Please like, share and subscribe as that

905
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.760
helps the show so much and I really appreciate it.

906
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:29.760
And I'll see you next time on Quick Before You Forget.