Why do Borderlines and Narcissists Attract? [Ep: 818]

0:01 You're in a good place. Now you are listening to Perspectives with Ashley Burger. Welcome back to the Ashley Burgess Podcast. On today's podcast, we'll be looking into borderline and narcissistic relationships. Why do people with borderline tendencies get attracted to narcissists? Why does that happen? And this is very interesting because I have many clients who have been in relationships with people with borderline personality disorder and all of a sudden, one day that relationship ends, and then they find out later on that this person is now in this other relationship, and they begin to find out about this relationship and they realize that this person is now in a relationship with a complete narcissist.

0:46 So let's explain that attraction. Whether you're listening to this because you have been somebody that was in the relationship and no longer, whether you have borderline tendencies or even narcissistic tendencies, Let's talk about why this relationship seems to happen and why borderlines are definitely attracted to narcissists and narcissists are attracted to borders. Let's discuss that today. The first big reason is that the nature of the narcissist is to ghost, to go dark, to play games, to use the silent treatment, and all these things would make anybody anxious or stressed or triggered. But somebody with borderline tendencies is going to get over the top anxious when somebody's been there and given them attention and you've had a relationship with them, and then all of a sudden can't be you know, can't be touched as far as phones not ringing, you text them, they don't respond, or they seem to go kind of dark for a few days and then reappear. And that is really discombobulating for anybody, but especially somebody with borderline tendencies.

2:00 And you would think that this would have. The person running for the hills to get away from this relationship. However it doesn't. It does the opposite. Somebody with borderline tendancies is more likely to try to get the narcissists and try to get their attention and try to win them back in an effort to get them back, no matter how bad the behavior is. And that's interesting because it's almost like the narcissist knows that the borderline is going to do this it's almost like the narcissist has a playbook that knows how to get to the core of the borderline, and so the going dark, the making plans and then not even saying they're breaking I'm just not showing up, not following through. I had a client the other day that was talking about a situation where they had plans with this person. They were dating to go on this trip, and they were getting ready for the trip and everything was good, and then the day of the trip when they're supposed to go to the airport together, this person doesn't answer the phone. There's no communication. My client was calling and calling and there was nothing there. And so again, it's interesting because most people would be like, hey, I've had enough of this.

3:13 I've been jilted. This is not right. This is really psychotic behavior. This is a kind of evil behavior. This is very extreme, self centered behavior. I'm going to get as far away as I can. Instead, though, a lot of folks do the opposite, right. They try to figure out what did I do wrong? What happened here? Why did this person do this to me? What can I do to change this? Can I get them back? I want them back now. It's interesting because you wonder, how did that create that situation where somebody goes from instead of standing up for themselves to trying to win this person back. Why does that happen? Well, it's a good question because the reason for that is the narcissist in the beginning of the relationship creates this love bombing attention effect. So the narcissist begins with giving the person with borderline tendencies all this attention, building them up, talking about how great they are and how wonderful they are, and making these long term plans probably marriage, family, amazing, lavish vacations, whatever, and the person with borderline tendencies like, wow, this is what I want because I have this fear of abandonment, this fear of being alone, and so this person has come in and is basically taking away all my fears and this is going to be the best relationship.

4:34 This is going to be a Hollywood looking relationship, and this is going to last forever. But see, love bombing is an interesting skill. I believe it's a skill set because I think that it's a way of manipulating and controlling other people from the very beginning. Think about it. If you meet somebody and they seem to have everything on the ball. They seem to be, you know, charismatic and cool and fun and good looking, and they're giving you all this attention and they're there for you, and they're constantly hanging out with you, and they're building you up and talking about how. Great you are. That feels pretty good. And it happens for several weeks, even several months, and you get really used to this and you're like, wow, this is awesome. I'm really liking this, and then all of a sudden, guess what, boom, I'm gonna pull the rug just a little bit. And usually how the rug is pulled is by a period of the silent treatment or maybe intermit, like a ghosting situation, where everything's going, well, we're about to do this, and this person kind of falls off the face of the earth for twenty four or forty eight hours, which can put somebody into a real tailspin because this has been going great for so long.

5:51 Now what's happening here. I've even had clients say, well, I was worried maybe he's dead, or maybe she's dead, like maybe something bad happened to her. I started calling the hospitals. Well, no, nothing bad has happened to them, and know they're not in the hospital. I know that everybody wants to go to that extreme thinking, well, there's no way that this person didn't call me, it must be dead. But in reality, what's happening here is this person's either monkey branching with somebody else and they're in a relationship with somebody else and that other person is getting their attention and they don't have time for you at that moment, or this is on purpose, I'm going to purposefully kind of devalue this person by pulling my attention and then let's see if what they do. Do they break up, do they move on, or do they actually take me in with open arms and not bring it up. And it's interesting because I've asked clients, why didn't you bring it up?

6:50 They're like, well, I didn't bring up the ghosting because I was worried that if I brought it up, they would do it again. I've had some clients also say they brought it up, like the silent treatment or the ghosting or not returning to calls or text and they said they did it again, like it was literally like clockwork, like you know, boom. They didn't hear from it for another few days. So they were trained to stop asking the questions, stop bringing up the dysfunction really quickly in the relationship. And they did that because they liked how they felt in the beginning of the relationship. They liked how they felt, they loved the attention. That's what they wanted. And so those are the things.

7:33 That we need to realize in these relationships because sometimes from the outside looking in, you don't know the lineage of the relationship. You don't know the love bombing, you don't know the beginning, you don't know all the attension that the person got because the person got a lot of attention, and then you don't realize how this intermittent reinforcement works. Because intermittent reinforcement is very interesting and unfortunately it's used on all laboratory experiments, which is horrible, but it's used on people intermittent experience and intermittent attention. So if you think about intermittent attention, intermittent attention is very interesting because what does that mean. That means on and off? Right, Intermittent reinforcement means hot and cold. I'm going to treat you very well, I'm going to be all into you, giving you all this attention, and then I'm not, and then I'm going to have extremes.

8:30 I'm going to go from this extreme. Of oh baby, I love you, Oh I love you so much. I'm here for you. I'm doing all this stuff too. I don't return a call, maybe I go all day without communicating, maybe I go two days without communicating. Right, So, you think about this. Type of intermittent reinforcement and you understand that this really creates an anxious attachment because what happens is as the other person is going through this intermittent reinforcement, they get groomed into accepting this, and then the triggers are so bad when things go cold, that they are waiting on baited breath for that person to re enter into their life, even though this person is probably the absolute worst person they could ever have in their camp. Literally, they've brought the Antichrist to be in a relationship with. Because a narcissist, whether covert or malignant or overt, are some of the most painful people that will ever be in your life because they will try to make your life a living hell.

9:43 They will try to bring you down, cut you down to size. They will try to do everything to blame you for their entire life, and then they will try to use you as a stepping stone to get to something bigger and better. It's their matra. You have met narcissists that seems so sweet and so nice, and oh they've had such a tough life and all that stuff. The victim reality of the narcissists is its genius. The victim reality of the narcissist's genius because they build up this concept that they're needy or they need help, or you know, they're just this guy or this girl that just needs help, when in reality, they're just they're a vampire. And if you think about the concept of the narcissist, they literally live off of other people because they are not fulfilled within. They don't see their value within.

10:38 Even the overt narcissists, yes, they have this false sense of reality. They're in their own narrative, but they try to take from other people because of their own internal dysfunction. So think about that. If you think about overt, covert, and malignant narcissists, it's like a scale, right, you have overt, covert and lignant narcissism, it gets worse and worse right, And so the anger and the resentment and the trying to change you over a period of time becomes their effort, their work, their body of work, because a narcissist, remember, a narcissist doesn't choose a weak person. A narcissist chooses a very powerful person so they can take them down, break them down, and then have that person as their disciple so that they can have someone to blame, someone to take care of them, someone to foot the bill for as long as possible until that other person wakes up and realizes what they are in, which is this sucks, this is a bad situation.

11:45 To be in. But remember it takes the other person to wake up, because the narcissist is not going to leave the relationship. And I want to underline that for everybody out there. So if you have borderline tendencies or even codependent tendencies and you are in a relationship with a narcissist and you're hoping that they leave you, I'm gonna tell you it's probably not gonna happen unless you're with an overt narcissist. If you're with the covert narcissist, they're not going to leave you because they want to blame you for the problems in the relationship. They're the kind of people that go around talking about how great their dead wife or husband was. When if you talk to the family of that deceased person, they tell you about how horrible this person is, what a horrible narcissists they were, and how the other person was dying because they were in this relationship. Right, the truth is not at all the way that they portray it because they probably put this person in an early grave because of the pain and suffering that they put them through.

12:46 And I want you to think about that. And so when you think about. The intermittent attention and the intermittent reinforcement, it creates somebody that's in fear of losing this person. So if you have borderline tendencies and you have fear of abandonment, fear of being alone, if you have these fears, and usually that started at an early age, you are going to try to keep the narcissists around and deal with them no matter what. So no matter what they're doing, no matter how they're acting, no matter what they're saying to you, you will try to override that. You will try to basically. Rewrite the narrative to stay in the relationship because you don't want to be alone. And the interesting part about being in a relationship with a narcissist is that the narcissists, remember is the center of attention. They are the center of attention in the relationship, and they want the full attention. Now, remember, somebody with borderline tendencies is used to being in a relationship where they get the full attention, but that's not going to happen in a relationship with a narcissist. So it's almost like a game being played where the person that has borderline tendencies is trying to win over the narcissists to get the narcissists to focus on them. Problem is that that's not going to ever happen, so it's like a game that can never be won. The borderline is constantly trying to get the narciss's attention, do everything

14:17 for the narcissists, be there at their beck and call, but it still doesn't matter because the narcissist is never going to praise them for anything. They're actually going to turn it around and actually find fault in whatever they did, bringing the borderline back down, cutting them back down to size and making the borderline have even less self esteem. And they figure that if you cut someone down to size enough, they will be so beaten down that they will never leave, which actually works most of the time. That's think about it. It's kind of the matra of how they do it is they go, Okay, I'm going to keep this person around, not happy, not peacefully, not calmly. I'm gonna take all that peace and calm away. I'm going to create a very anxious attachment. I'm gonna make this person feel kind of bad about themselves all the time. But guess what, I'm not leaving because I have this person that's a minion to me, that's going to take care of.

15:14 My every whim that I need. And I also get supply from them, because remember, the borderline is perfect supply for the narcissist, because the borderline keeps giving even when the narcissist is hateful, even when the narcissists is cutting them down to size, they are still there. So remember the borderline is perfect supply to the narcissist because the borderline does not want to be alone, can't deal with being alone or having any sort of abandonment. The narcissist fills the void of them being alone, and so they will continue to deal with the narcissists in order to make sure that the narcissist. Doesn't leave them. And I want you to really think about that, because that makes the borderline the perfect puzzle piece for the narcissist, because the narcissists can do out absolutely anything to the borderline, and the borderline will accept it and continue to go status quo because they are still trying to fill the void.

16:08 They are still trying to right the wrongs. And we'll talk about this. Stay tuned to the end of this podcast because the last observation that I'm going to bring up in today's episode is the real reason for the background for why this puzzle piece works so perfectly. It's interesting because our history does mostly dictate our president in the future until we wake up and educate ourselves and move forward and realize how we are focusing on things and how we're letting certain things define our life. So go back to the concept of the narcissist being the center of attention. Okay, so we get that even if the narcissist is covert, they're still getting center of attention. Covertly, there's still the victim, or maybe they're sick all the time, right or you know, maybe things aren't working out for them, or you know, they have an addiction problem, and so you're constantly carry during to their alcohol addiction or drug addiction. Maybe they just can't get a job, really haven't tried, but you know, maybe they haven't, and so you're catering to that and their issues.

17:17 So it's constantly and so. If the borderline or even the codependent is constantly catering to the narcissist needs, even if the covert narcissist that's always has a problem, an ailment, an issue. And it's interesting too how the covert narcissist is only nice usually when they're sick. So a covert narcissist is only nice to people in a relationship when they are sick, like really sick, because they need that person, They have to have that person because that's the only person around to take care of them. But right when they're fine again, they're just as mean as they've ever been. And this is critical to understand because that means that they are actually just taking advantage of you. That is it that is the role of the relationship. That is exactly why they're taking advantage of you, is because they need you. Now, the thing about these relationships is the narcissists will go to great links to get the borderline or the code of pendant to not realize that they're needed. So what I'm saying is the covert narcissists and the malignant narcissists, and for that matter, the overt narcissists will go to great links to get the other person to think that they're not that special, they're not that interesting, they're not needed, which is just the opposite of reality. The narcissist needs the other person because they need supply, whether it's emotional supply, financial supply, whatever that supply is, they need it, but they want to downgrade the supply so the supply believes that they need the narcissists see the game. This is

18:49 a game, and it's done quite well. I mean, it's really good. How they kind of turn things around and they turn the tables around and they make you think a certain way because they are actually. Needing you, but they want you to think the opposite. Right, So that's another reason why the borderline holds on is the borderline begins to believe that they need the narcissists, they believe if I lose this person, I'm gonna lose everything. I gotta hold on. This person's my future. I gotta hold on, when in reality that is not the case. Okay, So it's interesting. It's like it's like you having like a bar of gold, right, nine nine nine gold, and somebody's saying, yeah, that's worthless. That's what's worth nothing. You got nothing there, there's nothing there. It's not it's not there's no value, and you begin to believe there's no value.

19:34 You're like, well, there's no no value here. You want it? Okay. You can talk somebody into believing that they don't have value. You can talk somebody into believing that you are more valuable than them. And that is what a narcissist does. In a relationship with a borderline or codependent. They tell the borderline or the code of pendant all these things making them feel like they're just not even good enough, and then they just hold on with grim death with this relationship. And it's interesting because they can play in the game so well. They're very good because remember in the beginning, they set the scene that they were in love. They set the scene with the fact that, oh, I love you so much and you're the best thing in the world, and I love how you look and how you dress and who you are, and I love all the you know, just how outgoing you are and how intelligent you are. And so the other person, you know, is like, Wow, this feels so good and it's great, but they don't realize that this is not real. This part of the relationship is a facade.

20:32 Okay. It is a facade created to make you feel a certain way, and it's a facade to get into your life. It's a facade to make you allow open the doors. The doors to the castle are open. Please come in. There's orders, and there's champagne. Come on in. And you do this not even realizing that you've given the keys to the castle to an extreme narcissist that is going to eventually lock you out of your own castle. Okay, this is how our it's like. It's like you're like, you're letting them in and then guess what they're going to like beat you over the head with it over a period of time. Now, it's interesting because, like I said before, the narcissist is the center of their attention, the center of their world. Now, the borderline wants to get the narcissists full attention, but that's never going to happen. That's never going to happen because the narcissist is going to.

21:27 Have multiple sources of supply everywhere. And even if they don't really have like direct supply, like people waiting in the wings, and you know, other people that they talk to, communicate with and hang out with, it could be on social media. And you know, remember, narcissists have that grandiose like thought process. Even the covert believe that they're better than everybody else. So remember they think that, oh I have all this attention, and oh I have all this going on, and I'm so wonderful and I'm so great, and so they reach out a lot on social media, hang out and communicate with people and have those conversations, thinking that this is also their supply.

22:08 Now, the last thing that I want to bring. Out, which is the biggest part of this entire podcast today, is the reason for why this is happening. The reason for why this is happening, And this is what I want you to think about because this is the big This is the big. Ancelada, the parental dynamics. When the borderline or the codependant was being raised, usually what happened is they had a narcissistic parent dynamic, either mom or dad who was narcissistic, and they were raised in this narcissistic relationship and they tried and struggled so hard to get the narcissist attention and they could never get that attention. They can never win over that narcissistic parent, and they kept trying and trying, but they were never good enough. They could never succeed enough. They could never get enough awards or alcolades enough. So they gets kept trying and trying to trying, but they can never win.

23:06 They could never get that love. They could never get that attention. So you think about it when somebody is raised with a narcissistic parent and that parent never gave them attention, never was there for them, was not listening to them. What happens here is you have this situation as the person gets older and older where this is a huge trigger, and that's what makes people subsceptible to getting a relationships with other narcissists. First because it's commonplace you know it. I mean, your mom or dad was a narcissist. This seems really, really, really natural to be in this relationship too. It's like you're trying to right the wrongs from your childhood. When a borderline or code of pennant gets into a relationship with a narcissist, it's almost like they're trying to right the wrongs of their childhood because mom or dad was a narcissist that never gave them the attention that they deserve, never gave them the love that they deserve. It was never really there for them. That's key. That's the reason for the entire puzzle piece being perfect is because of this. It is not a perfect relationship. And this is a relationship based on trauma. This is a trauma based relationship. This is a toxic, trauma based relationship that is going to go nowhere except for making other people's lives insane. The borderline of the code of pendant is going to be overwhelmed with the amount of stress and anxiety. The narcissist is going to continue to blame and shame because they are just full of shame themselves. But they don't want to

24:37 see that because they are a shell of a person with absolute no emotional eque. They don't get it. They're not even on the same plane. Okay, so you have these issues, and yes they have their childhood traumas for sure, but we're not talking about that in today's podcast. We're talking about the struggle when somebody with borderline or even codependent tendencies or borderline and codependit tendencies get in a relationship with a narcissists. This is truly happening more often than you know. And I'm sure you have friends and family that are in these relationships and you're like, just get out. But the reason why they just can't get out is because of what I'm talking about here. It's not about necessarily getting out of just this relationship. It's about getting out of the past relationship. It's about overcoming the pain and suffering from their childhood. There's a lot of things going on, and so that's why I recommend coaching or therapy or both, is like really getting in and understanding feelings and emotions and why did I choose this relationship? But looking at the truth, it's not this person that you chose, it's this pathology. Because remember when a borderline chooses a narcissist. Usually it's because of familiarity of a family dynamic. This is very powerful, but also this is not based on love. This is based on trauma and unresolved issues. And so once we begin to see the honest truth about the relationship, we can then begin to understand how to take it apart or how to successfully get out of it, and how to understand why we want to get out of it. Until then, the borderline of the codependit is not going to get

26:08 it until they see the truth of where this started from, where this originated from, where this pattern began. Until they see that, they can't see the difference between like this person and love and a trauma bond situation, because once you realize it's a trauma bond, this relationship becomes quite weak. It weakens the concept, it weakens the connection because this is based on trauma. This isn't based on love, and the beginning was not real either. So if the beginning was not real, what do we really have here? We have a sham. We have somebody trying to get into your life and trying to literally abuse you. And then you have someone that is trying to literally abuse you from past abuse that you've had, and then you're trying to cater to this person and give them everything while this person is blame you for anything that goes wrong in their life.

27:03 HM. That's what I want us to think about. And if you are in a relationship with a narcissist and you are identifying with this podcast, you can reach out to me at any time. You can go to the website Ashleyburgess dot com. You can click on that contact page and send me a message. You can also set up a coaching session right online. Go to Ashleyburgers dot com, go to coaching sessions, click on that and set up an appointment immediately. Also, I think it would behoove you to go to YouTube and check out my YouTube channel and get some more knowledge and background as to understanding this relationship specifically, and if you are a friend or a family member, this may help you understand the concept of this because it's not just easy to jump out of these relationships because.

27:47 They actually hit you at your core. They hit you at your core, at your trauma core as a childhood trauma from most most of these relationships. This is what this is reliving childhood trauma based on a narcissistic parent that wasn't there for them, and this is deep. But if we can overcome this and override this, which you can, it gives you great comfort, It gives you awareness, and it gets you independence and freedom from the situation. If you want to check out those videos, go. To YouTube just search life Coach Ashley Burgess. We'll find new video content every week on that channel. And in the meantime, thank you for tuning into the podcast because this is very important to enlighten ourselves and educate ourselves at every moment. Every chance we had to educate ourselves is an amazing moment in time. And if we can educate ourselves out of trauma and into soul freedom, we are now on a better path in our life.

28:46 Thank you for tuning in and check out the podcast next week. We're putting out a podcast every week here on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and everywhere else that you can listen to a podcast. Again, thank you for tuning in. Have a great day you've been listen listening to the Ashley Burges podcast. Don't forget to live your true life. And the only way to live your true life is to educate yourself and understand why you're doing things, why you're making these choices, and asking yourself is this choice good for me? Is it healthy for me? And is this going to move my life forward in a successful way? And if it's not, it's time to back up and look at the situation clearly. Oh right,