May 13, 2025

When Borderline and Narcissism Overlap. [Ep. 796]

When Borderline and Narcissism Overlap. [Ep. 796]
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What happens when Borderline Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder overlap? Many of us understand narcissism and some of us understand borderline. However, what do you do when you find yourself in a relationship with a person who exhibits both narcissistic and borderline signs and symptoms? These relationships began very different than they present currently. When you are dealing with straight boilerplate BPD and the person is working on self-awareness, it can be manageable and easier to understand their responses and reactions. However, when we put narcissism in the mix which includes manipulation, a lack of empathy, exploitation of others, being demeaning towards others, and having entitlement, it changes things. Many people with codependency tendencies find themselves in these relationships. Sadly due to the stress of these relationships most people feel as though they lose their identities and they are forever trying to get the approval of the other person and coming up short. Listen to this podcast to obtain a better understanding of the combination of the two, how it presents, and how it makes you feel.

For more information on my work and coaching practice go to my website: www.ashleyberges.com


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WEBVTT

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You're in a good place now.

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You are listening to Perspectives with Ashley Burgets. Hi.

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I'm Ashley, and you're listening to the Ashley Burgess podcast.

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On today's podcast, I'm addressing borderline personality disorder as well

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as narcissistic personality disorder, and when the two overlap. We

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have co occurrence rate of forty percent with folks that

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exhibit BPD signs and symptoms as well as also exhibiting

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MPD signs and symptoms. So we're gonna be talking about

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that in today's podcast.

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You know, it's interesting.

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When we're dealing with just straight bordlerplate BPD, it's a

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lot easier to understand and digest, it's a lot easier

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to understand where that person's coming from and why they

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are acting this specific way. But when you add in

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MPD narcissistic personality disorder, that's when it gets challenging. That's

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when it gets hard, and that's when it can be

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really triggering because you're not expecting it because in the

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beginning sometimes you see maybe the BPD signs and symptoms,

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but you're not seeing the underlining MPD signs and symptoms,

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and so that can be challenging for a lot of people.

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And you know, we're not gonna go through all the

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characteristics of both. We're gonna talk today about when they overlap,

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especially when they overlap, and what's creating a lot of

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trigger points for the other person in the relationship and

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what really is challenging to the codependent who's in that

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relationship with the person that's exhibiting cooccurrence of both MPD

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and BPD. And this is when it gets really challenging.

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This is when your hair is on fire. And this

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is usually when I'm dealing with a lot of my clients,

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when they've come to a breaking point where they can't

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handle it anymore. They feel used, taking advantage of, they

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feel resentment, but also on top of all that, they

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feel like this need to continue to be there to

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try to help. They can't seem to get away. And

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there's a lot of reasons for that too. And we'll

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be doing a lot of podcasts on this because the

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information is necessary and needed because in these situations, you

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need help, and you need a group of people that

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can help you, not just people giving you random advice

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of oh, you just need to get out of that

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relationship or you know, you should have left a long

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time ago. That's great, great, great information.

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We usually we're not in these.

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Relationships because, oh, this is just kind of a one off,

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or we don't have any background and it Usually we're

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in these types of relationships because of the way that

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we were raised, how mom was or how dad was,

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and it can be a direct occurrence of what we

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dealt with growing up. It's not like you find this

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and this is like the missing piece. This is basically

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a This is like a blind side, right, It's like

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it's like when you're driving down the street and there's

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that one part in your car that you can't see.

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You gotta watch out you don't hit somebody. That's when

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these relationships occur because it is your norm. Okay, it's

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your norm and many of you might not agree, but

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you haven't really looked at the parent dynamic yet. You

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haven't really put you know, one plus one equals two,

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and that's something that's very important not that.

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So sometimes we have such a blind.

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Side to it that it can be hard to see,

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you know, and so this can be a lot of

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the reasons why. So try not to beat yourself up

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when you're in these situations. It's easy to beat ourselves

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up and to listen to friends and family tell you

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stuff that they don't really understand because they've never been

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in a relationship of this challenge. They've never been in

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a relationship that has pushed every one of their buttons before.

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And this is where you are currently right now. Okay,

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So I know that many of you are in a

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relationship and you probably thought, Okay, maybe they have BPD,

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maybe it's just PPD. But then you might say, maybe

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it's MPD. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's exactly

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what I'm dealing with.

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But what about both? Okay?

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And the both thing is when we get in the

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position we're in, that can be so overwhelming. Okay, So

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when you're in a relationship with somebody with co occurrence

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a PbD and MPD, you're gonna see these two sides.

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You're gonna have the mood swings, You're gonna have the

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emotional dysregulation, right, You're gonna have that, You're going to

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have that fear of abandonment. I mean that's extreme. And

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you know what I'm saying. You might walk out the

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door and they freak out. You don't answer a text

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within five minutes, and all of a sudden, you're getting

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this onslaught of texts, where are you?

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What are you doing?

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Are you cheating on me? Da da da da da?

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Calling everything else that's happening okay. But then at the

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same time, you may be getting this response from the

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other person that they're better than you. They they're more

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accomplished than you. Uh, you know, they they want more gratification.

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They need you to tell them how great they are,

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and you know that they're wonderful. They may be very

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all about a appearances, right. Some of these same individuals

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really like social media, so they post all these photos

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on social media of how great their life is and

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the expensive restaurants that they eat at, and they take

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all these pictures. And you know, I've had clients where

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they're like, you know, hey, I go on a vacation

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with my wife and my child, and it's a horrible

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experience because my wife is just taking these photos over

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and over again, trying to show everybody on Instagram and

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social media what a great trip we're having.

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When I'm miserable.

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Because she takes these photos and then she goes back

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into the room or the cabin on the boat, and

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you know, she doesn't want to do anything. She doesn't

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want to hang out, she doesn't want to do anything

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with the mood swings and what have you. And there

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it is with me and the kid doing stuff, you know,

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and it's hard because it's that outside persona of what

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they're trying to generate. And when you're dealing with someone

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with BPD and MPD, you're getting that. Now. If you're

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dealing with someone with just straight MPD, yes, they are

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going to post up everything and their need to shine,

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to show what a great life they have, to make

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themselves better and bigger than other people, you know, but

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you know that that's an interesting dynamic. But when you're

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dealing with both together, you have that person that posts

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these pictures and then doesn't want anything to do with anybody,

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is very upset, maybe feeling just empty and really sad

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at the same time, and that can really drive the

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codependant uh as well. So the codependan's over there trying

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to make them happy. What can I do for you?

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What can I get you? Can I get you something?

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Can I take care of something? Can you do this?

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They can also.

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Enable, right enabling that person and enabling them with drugs

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and alcohol right, enabling them with all kinds of different things,

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continuing this relationship and keeping it going, you know. And

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it's interesting because the person with BBD obviously has an

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unstable and distorted sense of self, whereas a person with

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MPD does the same.

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And the person with.

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MPD is usually they you know, they they believe that

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they're bigger than everybody else, better than everybody else. They

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have entitlement issues. They're entitled to this, they're entitled to that.

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For example, you may work a job and you do

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okay financially, and they don't work, and they don't plan

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on working, but they are telling you, you know, how

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you don't make enough money and how you need to

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work more, and you know, degrading you about your job

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while they haven't made a dime okay. And it's always

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interesting to look at these types of situations because they're

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when you have this combination. They're the first person to

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point out your faults and the first person to point

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out your faults. But if you try to point out

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anything about them or what they haven't done, it either

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goes on tough ears. They may even yell and scream

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in the background or they might close their ears.

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With their hands and d I don't hear you.

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Or they can fight dirty as well, So there's lots

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of things that can go on in the situation. I

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also find that it's interesting how when some one with

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BPD and MPD, when they have that combination, they also

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can put unrealistic expectations on everybody around them, like this

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person needs to make this much money.

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This needs to do this, I need to have that.

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You need to do this.

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You need to look like that, you need to change

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your hair color, you need to lose some weight, you're fat,

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you need to do this, you need to do that,

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all the while though the other person's not changing or

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doing anything. And I find that this is like a

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boundary issue. It's like they forget that you're you and

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they're them, and it's just like it's almost like they're

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in charge of you. And a lot of times when

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folks have kids, it's almost like they see themselves and

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their kids as the royal we and so whatever happens

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to the kids happens to them. It's very interesting, like

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if a child is you know, like if their child

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is doing something that they always wanted to do.

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Oh, this is my kid. This is my kid, you know.

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But if not, they might shun them, you know, give

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them the silent treatment, you know. And also in these situations,

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folks have favorite children too. So if you're dealing with

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someone would be PD and MBD tendencies, this person is

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going to have a favorite. So you might be the

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black sheep, You might be the favorite. You might also

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recognize in relationships now, like even in your current marriage,

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that maybe your wife or husband favors one of the

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kids and not the other. Maybe you're dating somebody and

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they have children, and this is happening in front of

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your very eyes, and maybe you were also on this

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side of the coin growing up. Okay, because remember it's

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like if I have I don't have kids, but if

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I had kids, I would love them.

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I mean I hope that I wouldn't.

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Have like a like a like a devil kid, but

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I mean I think otherwise I would love them.

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Just the same.

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You know, they're they're your kids, and so it's really

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interesting how they can develop favorites and also you know,

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helping one and making the other one like you know,

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amazing and all this stuff, even if that kid is

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the one that's really not that amazing, But they hold

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that kid up and put the other kid down. Now,

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let's look at the concept of the anger and you know,

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the inappropriate anger as well as the rage that goes.

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Along with it.

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And I find that, you know that is if it's

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just straight borderline, there's an up and down right, Okay,

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they get angry, it's over. They get angry, it's over.

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But when you add the MPD in, there's a manipulation

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component involved here that gets very excessive. So when you

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add the MPD in, all of a sudden, now we're

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not only raging, we're also manipulating the other person. We're

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playing with their emotions, we're exploiting them. And one of

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the things that I find is, if you're in a

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relationship with someone with BPD and MPD and the very

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beginning and the love bombing stage, in the very beginning,

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they learned a lot about you, and you told them

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a lot about your life, a lot about your personal lives, relationships,

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past marriages, you know, things that you've failed at, you know,

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And what they do in the beginning is they listen

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and they seem to be so interested in giving you

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all this attention, and it feels really good. However, down

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the road, it's almost like they have taken like notes

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in a legal pad, and every single thing that you

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talked about failed marriages, you know, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is,

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you know, they've written it down. And when the NPD

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part of this person comes out, that's when this forever

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ammunition or these comments come up. Oh well, you know,

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at least I graduated college, or at least I don't

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have two failed marriages, or at least I talk to

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my child.

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You haven't talked to your kid in how long? I mean?

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And and then the recent stuff comes up too, because

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they harbor anything that you've done wrong in their minds

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00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.039
and they use it to fight you and to manipulate

232
00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:04.159
you in a argument. And it's interesting because a narcissist

233
00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:08.000
is very good at exploiting you. They exploit you, right,

234
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.480
So they take anything you've ever told them and they

235
00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.759
use it against you. They basically beat you over the

236
00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.720
head with any information you've ever given them, okay, and

237
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.960
they will beat you over the head until you're until

238
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.879
you're out of that relationship. And sometimes when somebody has

239
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.639
BPD and MPD, Right, if it was just straight BPD,

240
00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.360
this wouldn't happen. But because of the combination, right, they

241
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.320
will actually, you know, exploit you in the fact that

242
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:36.480
if you leave me, I'm gonna tell your family what

243
00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:36.919
you did.

244
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:38.799
If you leave me, I'm going to.

245
00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:41.759
Your your your work, and I'm going to your boss

246
00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.519
and I'm going to report you. I'm going to tell

247
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.840
them what you did. And for some of you out there,

248
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.720
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't have this, you know.

249
00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.000
I mean, I work, you know, top clearance, or I

250
00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:51.919
do this for the government, or I have this or that.

251
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.200
I can't have this person doing this. So you stay

252
00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.879
in these relationships and fear that they're going to expose

253
00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.919
you or exploit you. And usually that doesn't happen. And

254
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.720
usually if there is a call made, you just have

255
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:06.159
to just kind of figure out how to segue to

256
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:07.000
that prior.

257
00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:07.480
To them calling.

258
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.919
But also most people are not gonna believe it. Honestly,

259
00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.000
I've been called several times about people I know, and

260
00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:16.639
I go, hey, I can't even take this call. I

261
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.480
don't want to be on this call for liability reasons. Okay, sorry,

262
00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.240
you know that I'll call that person directly and talk

263
00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:25.200
to them. I don't know who you are, I don't

264
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:28.639
really want to have this conversation, and okay, let's lose

265
00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.480
my number. So it's interesting because when we're going through this,

266
00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:36.639
they will use manipulation and exploitation to keep you in

267
00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:42.559
the relationship even though you're miserable. Now, the thing about

268
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:47.000
BPD is the splitting, right, the splitting you know also,

269
00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.000
you know, putting you on that pedestal and then devaluing

270
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.879
you and then just discarding you and then putting you

271
00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:54.759
back on the pedestal. You can do no wrong. Oh

272
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.559
my god, you're the most amazing guy. You're the most

273
00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:59.200
amazing woman. I've never found anybody like you. Oh my god,

274
00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.799
thank you God for being here to You're a horrible person.

275
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.840
I can't believe you did this. You are a monster.

276
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:05.960
What have you?

277
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.200
And you know, the other side of the coin, too,

278
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.159
is that when you have that splitting, but then you

279
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:18.559
add the lack of empathy and this is where it

280
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:19.960
gets bad.

281
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.799
Okay, So you have all.

282
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.600
These emotions and you have these feelings, and it's one

283
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:27.759
thing to lash out and then you know, hey, I'm

284
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.240
really sorry I did that, and you know it's not

285
00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:33.159
your fault. I'm really working on myself. I really probably,

286
00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.240
I probably need to start seeing a therapist and my

287
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:37.000
coach more. I need to start working on my you know,

288
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.639
dialectical behavior therapy. I need to, you know, really have

289
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.799
cognitive behavioral therapy. I need to really start looking at

290
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:44.720
my own self awareness. But when you put the two together,

291
00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.879
you know what happens here is you have that splitting.

292
00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.399
But when you have the MPD involved, there's no empathy,

293
00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:57.639
so there is no apologies. There's no apology. There's no apology.

294
00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.320
There's no apology for anything they do. And there's a

295
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.600
double standard. That's the biggest thing about the MPDBPD combination

296
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.480
is this is a double standard. Anything I ask you

297
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.039
to do, I'm not doing. If I say you can't

298
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:14.159
you do this, or you can't hang out with these people,

299
00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.480
or you can't hang out with people with the opposite sex,

300
00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.399
I'm not going along with that. I'm doing whatever I

301
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.639
want to do. I'm just controlling you. I'm using this

302
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.159
as a control factor to control you and your actions

303
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:27.639
and what you're doing on your.

304
00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:28.519
Day to day basis.

305
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:32.639
And I feel like this part is where most people

306
00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.879
that are in these relationships that have codependent tendencies, this

307
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.240
is where it gets painful because you keep giving and

308
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:43.080
giving and giving, but this person isn't You keep giving

309
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.320
and giving and giving and thinking, this person's gonna get better.

310
00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.120
Maybe if I show them this love, Maybe if I

311
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.399
go out of my way to do this, maybe if

312
00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.440
I go out of my way to do that, they

313
00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.679
are gonna get it. They're gonna finally get it and

314
00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.919
see that I care and love them. Okay, great, has

315
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.080
that worked so far? Most of the time, it's just

316
00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.799
you are jumping through hoops in an effort to get

317
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:11.559
them to see your value, right, to see your value.

318
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:12.480
That's all it is.

319
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.360
And it's like, you know, the thing is is that

320
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.720
it's almost like they know they're not going to give

321
00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:22.440
you that they're never going to give you the acceptance

322
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.639
that you want because if they give you the acceptance

323
00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:28.639
that you want, well, hell, what do they have now?

324
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:35.200
What leverage? What leverage do they have? Okay?

325
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:37.480
But they also thing you're dealing with somebody that's not happy.

326
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.519
No matter how they con you into believing that they're

327
00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:43.919
better than you, that they're more sophisticated than you, then

328
00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:45.000
they're smarter than you.

329
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:46.720
How much are you really believing this?

330
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.000
But this lack of empathy and the exploitation of others

331
00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:58.159
is where it really hurts the code of Pennant because

332
00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:00.080
I think you could deal with straight.

333
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:00.919
Tolign on its own.

334
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.519
Yes it's challenging, and yes the ups and downs are

335
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.319
horrible and the rage is horrible. Or the internalization of

336
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.319
the emotions and trying to get them out of bed

337
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:11.839
and helping and trying to figure out what to do next,

338
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.200
yes that's not easy at all. But when you add

339
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:16.799
these two together, that's when it becomes really super hard,

340
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.839
because you're dealing with somebody that seems to not be

341
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.000
able to get out of their way and they have

342
00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.759
these issues, but yet they're a jackass about it, and

343
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.319
they try to make you actually they try to make

344
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:31.359
you think like, oh, you know that they don't need you,

345
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.000
that they don't need you at all. And that's a

346
00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:38.480
problem because you're giving all of this of yourself and

347
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:43.039
an effort to help them. But well, it's not really

348
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.640
coming back. It's not coming back at all. It's actually

349
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.160
it's you know, the example, when you're dealing with someone

350
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.519
with BPD at MPD, it's like you're at this casino

351
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.480
and you know, you're at this salt machine you know

352
00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:58.799
those those major big slot machines that have all the

353
00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:02.240
colors now and all the screens, and they got buffalos

354
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.440
running on the screen and all this stuff's going on.

355
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:08.079
It's chaotic, and you put money in. It's like you know,

356
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:09.440
you put let's say you put a one hundred dollars

357
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.960
bill in there, right, put one hundred dollar bill in there,

358
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:14.279
and you know, Okay, you.

359
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.200
Lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. Oop.

360
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.039
You got five bucks, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP,

361
00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.480
got three dollars, lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, OOP, got

362
00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.640
two dollars. Okay, now you're down to four bucks and

363
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.720
you lose it, right, and then you put another one

364
00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.400
hundred in Oh, I got ten. You see what I'm saying.

365
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.400
But you're always in a losing proposition. There's a lot

366
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.839
of things going on, there's a lot of drama going

367
00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.599
on the screens, there's a lot of emotion, there's a

368
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.720
lot of energy, But you are the one that's losing

369
00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.039
all your energy trying to take care of this relationship

370
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:51.000
and everything else in your life is falling by the

371
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:53.839
wayside because you don't have enough. I mean this takes

372
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.960
up like all of your energy, it takes up all

373
00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.680
of your time, it takes up all of everything you

374
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.839
can focus on. And that's what's so really challenging about

375
00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.279
the situation is that it's actually doing that. And so

376
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.000
many of you are watching your careers kind of pivot

377
00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:12.880
in a negative way. Many of you have lost contact

378
00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:16.079
with family and friends, and some of you don't do

379
00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.319
anything for fun anymore. You know, I can't tell you

380
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.359
how many clients have boats that they haven't been on

381
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.599
their boat in over a year. I can't tell you

382
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.799
how many clients that literally haven't done anything for themselves

383
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.240
because they're too busy, worried about what's going to happen next.

384
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.559
They race home to try to stop arguments, they're constantly

385
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.200
trying to beg the other person to wake up to

386
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.759
get help, and then they're falling. It's falling on deaf ears,

387
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.759
and that is a problem, and it can be really overwhelming.

388
00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:50.880
And you know, I don't really want to go into

389
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.480
all the self harm because there's a lot of people

390
00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:54.480
out there that don't self harm themselves, and a lot

391
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:57.000
of people that are not suicidal. There are some, for sure,

392
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.319
but I think that's a separate. That's a separate on

393
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.359
its own. Yes, and definitely there are people that are

394
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880
that will self harm. But what I see a lot

395
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:11.240
of times in this situation the BPD MPD combination is

396
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.440
that there's enough MPD that that person's not going to

397
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.559
hurt themselves, you know, and if they do, it's only

398
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.319
to get more attention. It's not to actually end anything.

399
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.200
It's to you know, get more attention. It's to make

400
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.359
you feel bad, it's to hurt your feelings. And I

401
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:35.119
find this usually a manipulative tactic that's used. And I

402
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:38.119
find that when these types of manipulative tactics happen, the

403
00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.240
code of pennic gets even more connected, even if they

404
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.119
don't want to be into the relationship, because now we've

405
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.160
had like some sort of situation, you know, happen where

406
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.920
the person was going to take some pills or do

407
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.319
what have you, And now this person feels like now

408
00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:54.079
they're indebted to try to save this person, to help.

409
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:54.599
Them wake up.

410
00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.240
And again, one of the things that I need everybody

411
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.240
to think about is, you know, there's not another person

412
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.039
that's you're cross to bear. Okay, your cross to bear

413
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.359
is yourself, right, I mean, you taking care of another

414
00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.720
person in lieu of yourself, you're missing the point, like

415
00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.359
you need to take care of you first, right, and

416
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.240
when you're trying to safeguard this person, take care of

417
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:18.680
this person, do everything for this person. You are losing

418
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:22.519
your independence, you are losing your identity. Your life is

419
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.680
no longer your life now your life is the caretaker

420
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.640
of this person. And the problem of being the caretaker

421
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.960
of this person because they have BPD and MPD, is

422
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.440
that they don't care and you're never gonna do enough.

423
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.799
You can never do enough to make this person happy.

424
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.240
With this combination, they're not gonna be happy with you.

425
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.240
They're gonna beat you down to submission, get you to

426
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.039
do what they want to do, and then they're still

427
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.319
gonna find fault with you because ultimately they are not

428
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.839
happy and they're not gonna do things they want you

429
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:58.559
to do things to make them happy because that's part

430
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:00.920
of your duty. It's like, you know, it's like you're

431
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:05.079
working for them. You're like there's slave. You're literally they're

432
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:09.079
emotional slave that they can take everything out on you

433
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.359
anytime they want. You've shown them they can. You've given

434
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.200
them the keys, You've given them the keys to show

435
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:19.799
them how to use it. You've given them the codes

436
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:22.599
to know what to do. You've gave them all the

437
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.359
information about yourself in the very beginning that they can

438
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:29.000
use against you to make you feel like crap. Right,

439
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.960
and now you're sitting here going, oh my god, what

440
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.640
do I do now?

441
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:32.480
How do I do this?

442
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:35.519
So there's a part of you that's now stuck going, oh,

443
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:39.079
there was still some good times, you know, And then

444
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.119
there's most of it is just like you know, a trigger,

445
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.400
you know of the situation from childhood or from a

446
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.319
relationship prior, and it's a trauma bond. And so now

447
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:53.519
you are trauma bonded with this person with BPD and MPD.

448
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.319
You're the codependent who's the perfect puzzle piece for the

449
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.200
situation because you know, you were always fighting to do better,

450
00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.119
to prove yourself and all that stuff your whole life,

451
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.640
and so now you're trying to prove yourself that you

452
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.799
can win this relationship, you can make this work, you

453
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.279
can do this, you can do that, you know, and

454
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:12.720
you're like, okay, I'm gonna prove this too. Okay, but

455
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:14.720
we need to kind of step back at some point

456
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:17.759
and go, what are we proving and why am I

457
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:18.559
trying to prove this?

458
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.559
And I need to also take the.

459
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.400
You know, take take the the guys off of the

460
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:28.960
trauma von because it's not the trauma bond. Isn't love.

461
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.559
Trauma bond is a trauma bond. There's no, there's not

462
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:35.039
it's not love. It might have appeared as love in

463
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:38.279
the beginning because it felt so familiar and it was like, oh,

464
00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:40.640
this feels so good. Oh yeah, this is the love

465
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.000
of my life. Oh, I can't believe I'm at this person,

466
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:45.400
you know. And then eventually the red flags come and

467
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:46.839
you're like, oh, I don't know about that. Huh, I

468
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:48.200
don't know about that, And here they come, and the

469
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:50.839
parade of red flags are coming, the parade of red

470
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.319
flags are coming, right, and you kind of overlook that

471
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.359
until it gets worse and worse and worse and worse

472
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.480
and worse, and you find yourself, you know, calling your

473
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:01.480
friend every night asking what to do. You find yourself

474
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.680
trying to find a you know, a professional to help you.

475
00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:06.480
You don't know what to.

476
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:09.599
Say or do, and there you are locked in basically

477
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.160
this concept, this psychle pattern of doing everything you can

478
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:17.759
this person loving you. Then hating you, then loving you,

479
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:20.720
then hating you, the manipulating you, then controlling you, then

480
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:23.279
trying to take you away from everybody, you know, trying

481
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.039
to isolate you, all the while having this lack of empathy.

482
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:27.480
Right.

483
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:32.279
They don't really care about you, and they tell you that. See,

484
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:34.240
that's the thing is that they actually tell you things

485
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:37.119
that are just mean and cruel. And they will say

486
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.680
horrible things to you and then the next day act

487
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.559
like nothing was said, you know, the next day like

488
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:45.160
they will say horrible things to you that if you

489
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.160
did to them, they would probably call the police on

490
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.680
you and you would probably be arrested at your home

491
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.880
because you were you know, you know, because what you

492
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:55.279
were doing was wrong and you were sending horrible messages

493
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:57.599
and threatening messages, and the next day, oh, good morning,

494
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:01.839
you know, and it's there's no empathy. There's no I'm

495
00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.160
sorry I did that, I shouldn't have said that, I

496
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.079
was out of line. There's none of that. And that's

497
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.599
something that we need to really think about too, you know.

498
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.319
I mean, but the last thought that I want to

499
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:17.319
bring up in today's podcasts, you know, it's interesting, you know,

500
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:20.359
it's that whole betterment concept. So when you're dealing with

501
00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:22.720
somebody with this combination, you know, they're better than others.

502
00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:28.519
They can be very arrogant and put other people down

503
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:31.839
and and and that's really challenging too, because there you are, like,

504
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.839
you know, you're dealing with this person and their struggles

505
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:36.400
and their issues, and you're trying to help them. But

506
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:38.720
yet they put other people down, they make fun of

507
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.000
other people. They're better than other people, and they don't

508
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.559
see like they don't have like a human side as

509
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.759
far as a self awareness piece, where you know, there's

510
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.160
some things that I'm lacking here and I need to

511
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.759
do some work on myself, and you know, just to

512
00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:58.759
see reality doesn't exist, it doesn't exist. And you know,

513
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.519
you know a lot of times with these folks, you know,

514
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.839
they don't they will not go to therapy. They're not

515
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:06.160
going to do therapy. They're not going to do this,

516
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.880
they're not going to do that. They don't have a problem.

517
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:13.720
You know, they don't have a problem. Now, I think,

518
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.720
you know, when you deal with folks like this too,

519
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:20.480
they do and every relationship that they're gonna have until

520
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.720
they get right with themselves is going to be a problem.

521
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.359
But the problem is it's not really the problem with them,

522
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:30.119
it's the problem with us is why are we still

523
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.960
in this? What do we have to gain out of it?

524
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.160
And why are we letting this relationship control us? So

525
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:43.720
the relationship is controlling us, it's controlling you completely right,

526
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.000
So why are we letting it happen? Why are we

527
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.599
letting this relationship control us?

528
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:51.359
Because we are.

529
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.680
And that's where I want you to really think about,

530
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:55.599
is that That's where I think the issue is.

531
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.160
That's really where the rubber.

532
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.039
Meets the road, because I understand if it was just

533
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:04.599
straight BPD, yes, there's a lot of issues to deal with,

534
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:09.440
and if the person's wanting to go and get some help, okay,

535
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:11.720
let's let's go down that route. But if you're dealing

536
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:16.160
with somebody that has that plus this manipultive and controlling

537
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.839
and non empathetic and non caring and envious of other

538
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.720
people and thinking everybody's envious to them, and you know,

539
00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:27.440
it's all about appearances and these obsessions with appearances constantly,

540
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.759
you're dealing with all of that, and then on top

541
00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:32.960
of that, it's like where does that even leave room

542
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:35.359
for you? I mean it's almost like all the error

543
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:36.960
is sucked out of the room every day by this

544
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.440
person anyway, And then why are you attracted to this?

545
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.000
Why do you continue to attract this? And I think

546
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:43.559
that you know, you're not attracted to it as far

547
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.400
as you like it. You're attracted to it because it's

548
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.440
a trauma bond. You've gotten into it. This is familiar space.

549
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.000
Now we got to look at why we've been attracted this,

550
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.039
what's been in our past, and why we got here.

551
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:56.599
And then you need to begin to figure out, Okay,

552
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:58.599
how do I sit there and work to get out

553
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:00.960
of this? How do I work to get out of this?

554
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:02.559
And what is the what is the way to do it?

555
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:06.079
You know, people quit things, quit vices very different ways.

556
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.839
I mean, when you think about smoking, some people can

557
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:09.920
quit cold. Some people have to use a little computer,

558
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.680
some people use a patch, some people use an inhalent.

559
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:15.200
You know when people talk, you know, stop alcohol. Some

560
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.640
people have to go to rehab, right. Some people just

561
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.400
stop cold, that's it. Some people minimize, they get down

562
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:23.319
to one drink, you know, they get two drinks, then

563
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:25.279
they're down to one drink and then they cut it out.

564
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:25.720
You know.

565
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.759
Some people use vitamins to cut out alcohol. Some people

566
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:31.200
need to use a pill you know that makes alcohol

567
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.799
taste horrible. Whatever, whatever it is, you got to figure

568
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:36.480
out what it is that you can quit this toxic

569
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.400
relationship and then begin to get help for yourself, because yeah,

570
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.200
I mean, in order to get into this relationship, it

571
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:44.200
takes two to tango.

572
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:46.160
Okay, we all have our issues.

573
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.640
Let's not act like, let's not act like, you know,

574
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.799
it's just the other person, because that's not true, because

575
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.640
if it was just the other person, you could easily

576
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:55.480
get out of this and move forward. We need to

577
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.920
deal with those code of penitendencies and why we feel

578
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.319
like we have to save this or why we have

579
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.920
created this image of this relationship in our head that's

580
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.599
so hard to let go. I have more podcasts coming up,

581
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.680
more about you know, BPD, MPD combination, you know, as

582
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.240
well as dealing with people that are not empathic and

583
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.279
and people that are manipulative, because the more manipulating somebody

584
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.680
is of you, the more they control your brain, the

585
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.920
more you allow it, the more you lose your you

586
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.359
lose your identity, you lose yourself. And that's what this

587
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.599
podcast is dedicated helping everybody that's going through these problems,

588
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.440
going through these issues and want to come out the

589
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.039
other side. You're already a little SKay, but we want

590
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:39.359
to get you out as safe as and sound as

591
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:42.279
possible and get the work that we need to further

592
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:44.960
our life to have a better life, to have a

593
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.599
peaceful life, and to have a successful life. If you

594
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.799
haven't already, check out my website Ashleyburgess dot com Ashley

595
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:54.960
Berges dot com. You can set up a coaching session online.

596
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:57.640
Just go to Coaching Sessions, click on that, feel it

597
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.240
out and it'll send an email and we can work

598
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.839
together one on one as well as don't forget the

599
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.279
YouTube channel go to life Coach Ashley Burgess.

600
00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:06.559
Check out our YouTube channel.

601
00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:10.640
New video content up twice a week and in the meantime,

602
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.359
thank you for tuning in. Please share this podcast with

603
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.599
others and anybody that might need it. Please repost it

604
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.200
on your social media to share with others. And in

605
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.559
the meantime, you know, don't forget to live your true life.

606
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.200
And I'll be back here next with the Ashley Burgess Podcast.

607
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:27.960
Take care