Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673
In Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging.
For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically.
Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition.
Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms.
Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists.
The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now:
How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place?
Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement.
A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex.
Casey explains Listener.com’s concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance.
Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints.
We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack’s media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value.
The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships.
We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same.
Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number.
Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now.
For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads.
Topics Covered in This Episode:
00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing
01:00 Moving beyond the download
01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges
02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com
03:37 Casey Adams joins the show
04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve
05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers
05:41 Casey’s podcasting origin story
06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends
07:18 Larry King’s warning about rejecting new media trends
08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com
09:15 Rob’s early podcasting and radio background
10:04 Why the industry struggles with change
11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster?
12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology
13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem
14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are
15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means
16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception
17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS
18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage
19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits
20:39 Larry King’s quote behind Listener.com
21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences
23:21 Respecting podcasting’s roots while accepting change
24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting’s disruption
25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies
27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands
28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged
30:13 TBPN and the new media company model
31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem
32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity
33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies
35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships
36:00 Silicon Valley’s renewed interest in “new media”
37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows
38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform
39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage
40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance
41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips
42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers
43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently
44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting
45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms
46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations
47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes
48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data
49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share
50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next
51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins
52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy
53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows
54:47 What drives new media inspiration today?
56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative
57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations
58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms
59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts
1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays
1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards
1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports
1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting
1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data
1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data
1:07:00 Putting a show’s full value forward
1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP
1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment
1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back
1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives
1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer
1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging
1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition
1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal
1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands?
1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices
1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences
1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships
1:20:05 Casey’s closing thoughts on podcasting and new media
1:20:34 Rob’s closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media
1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com
1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com’s go-to-market
1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show
Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com
Listener.com: https://listener.com
Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com
The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944
Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/
Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams
Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/
Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links
Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com
New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com
New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649
New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow
Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee
Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com
Personal / AI Disclosure Note
I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest’s. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.
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